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  • [1]


    Kuvira's true nature is revealed, and the Earth Kingdom will feel the consequences!

    Thanks to Commander Guan and Doctor Sheng's brainwashing technology, all hope for a fair election in the Earth Kingdom is lost. Korra works with Toph, Su, and Kuvira to plan a means to rescue not just the brainwashed Mako, Bolin, and Asami, but everyone else caught up in Guan's plan! With the Earth Empire potentially on the rise again, Kuvira pulls another trick from her sleeve... but whose side is she truly on?

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    • Having it Asami gets brainwashed in Ruins Of The Empire, after being kidnapped by the Triads in Turf Wars is stupid, once again the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.


      It'd be better if in part 3, Mako, Bolin and Korra were brainwashed, leaving Asami no choice but to work alongside Kuvira to save her friends, the woman who killed her father.


      I was on the fence about getting Ruins Of The Empire, now I know. I'm not getting it!

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    • I personally don't see how being kidnapped automatically makes a character "weak", especially in the aforementioned case. I mean, it's not like Asami just sat on her ass waiting for Korra to rescue her. I'll admit it's a bit repetitive, but then again Katara was taken prisoner twice in AtlA ("The Waterbending Scroll" and "The Runaway").

      Also, I'd rather that neither of the two get kidnapped/brainwashed. Asami because the last comic did that already, and Korra because, realistically and logically speaking, I don't see how Guan and Sheng would be able to restrain her long enough to actually brainwash her, now that she's got the Avatar State. Plus, Korra being psychologically tortured has already been done plenty of times in the animated series.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      I personally don't see how being kidnapped automatically makes a character "weak", especially in the aforementioned case. I mean, it's not like Asami just sat on her ass waiting for Korra to rescue her. I'll admit it's a bit repetitive, but then again Katara was taken prisoner twice in AtlA ("The Waterbending Scroll" and "The Runaway").

      Also, I'd rather that neither of the two get kidnapped/brainwashed. Asami because the last comic did that already, and Korra because, realistically and logically speaking, I don't see how Guan and Sheng would be able to restrain her long enough to actually brainwash her, now that she's got the Avatar State. Plus, Korra being psychologically tortured has already been done plenty of times in the animated series.

      I personally do see a character being kidnapped and brainwashed twice in a short amount of time as making that character weak.

      One of my nephew's fears the LOK comics are making Asami who is one of his favourite characters in the show, into a damsel in distress trope with the brainwashing happening, on top of her being kidnapped in Turf Wars and after thinking about it, he might have a point.

      Could say the same about Mako and Bolin, realistically how would Guan and Sheng be able to capture them long enough to brainwash them, plus Asami on top of that!

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    • It would've been interesting if they hadn't gone the brainwashing route. Perhaps we would get some development with Korra by having her being challenged with the supporters of Guan and avid followers of the monarchy and seeing how she deals with this issue instead of punching her way out of every problem. Unfortunately, they had to make Guan a blatant villain. 

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    • TheWingedLynx wrote:
      It would've been interesting if they hadn't gone the brainwashing route. Perhaps we would get some development with Korra by having her being challenged with the supporters of Guan and avid followers of the monarchy and seeing how she deals with this issue instead of punching her way out of every problem. Unfortunately, they had to make Guan a blatant villain. 

      True. Would've been better if the antagonists were Earth Kingdom loyalists who don't want the Earth Kingdom to become a democracy and want the monarchy to return maybe under a new monarch or a relative of Wu's who desires power as Earth King or Queen.

      The brainwashing is cliche and been done before.

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    • Sergio N wrote:
      Having it Asami gets brainwashed in Ruins Of The Empire, after being kidnapped by the Triads in Turf Wars is stupid, once again the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.


      It'd be better if in part 3, Mako, Bolin and Korra were brainwashed, leaving Asami no choice but to work alongside Kuvira to save her friends, the woman who killed her father.


      I was on the fence about getting Ruins Of The Empire, now I know. I'm not getting it!

      That is all Asami is a damsel I tell people this and they get mad lol.

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    • Ironbender wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:
      Having it Asami gets brainwashed in Ruins Of The Empire, after being kidnapped by the Triads in Turf Wars is stupid, once again the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.


      It'd be better if in part 3, Mako, Bolin and Korra were brainwashed, leaving Asami no choice but to work alongside Kuvira to save her friends, the woman who killed her father.


      I was on the fence about getting Ruins Of The Empire, now I know. I'm not getting it!

      That is all Asami is a damsel I tell people this and they get mad lol.

      Well whoever is writing the plot for these comics needs to be replaced, so someone can take over who'll do better than making Asami a cliche damsel in distress.

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    • Sergio N wrote:
      Ironbender wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:
      Having it Asami gets brainwashed in Ruins Of The Empire, after being kidnapped by the Triads in Turf Wars is stupid, once again the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.


      It'd be better if in part 3, Mako, Bolin and Korra were brainwashed, leaving Asami no choice but to work alongside Kuvira to save her friends, the woman who killed her father.


      I was on the fence about getting Ruins Of The Empire, now I know. I'm not getting it!

      That is all Asami is a damsel I tell people this and they get mad lol.
      Well whoever is writing the plot for these comics needs to be replaced, so someone can take over who'll do better than making Asami a cliche damsel in distress.

      Asami has never been anything more than an relationship trophy. She has zero depth by herself as acharacter. Hell even the relationship when she is suppose to be the one giving advice to Korra she isn't used. Makko has been the one they used to have those important talks with Korra. 

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    • Lol ^^^^ anyways, Mako was originally supposed to die. And in any case, that's hilarious when Mako has been shown almost dying, nearly getting himself killed, imprisoned more than anyone in the cast, and is now getting brainwashed too. He also doesnt matter much in the comics. See how easy it can be to dismiss a character? Btw, if you really liked him you wouldn't be misspelling his name.

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    • Another thing I would have to add is that the show treats Mako as The Chick, like if he had an interesting story to tell in Remembrances, it damn well shouldn't have been his relationship issues. Wow. What a supposed complex character, you got us all there.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote: Lol ^^^^ anyways, Mako was originally supposed to die.

      Do you have a source for this?

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    • Korra2000 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote: Lol ^^^^ anyways, Mako was originally supposed to die.

      Do you have a source for this?

      I would have to delve back in 2014 resources, but I swear that was supposed to happen. That part when he blew up the Colossus's heart/brain was telling, and also kind of dumb when he could've potentially killed everyone onboard including Korra. In anyway, it didn't make sense at all when that moment wasn't built up and he was literally shot in the heart.

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    • I was never sure if that was just something made up by fans or actually confirmed because I've never seen official confirmation on this. Do you know why he didn't die after all? And was Hiroshi originally supposed to die as well or did they decide that after deciding against Mako dying? Would be interesting to know.

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    • Ironbender wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:
      Ironbender wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:
      Having it Asami gets brainwashed in Ruins Of The Empire, after being kidnapped by the Triads in Turf Wars is stupid, once again the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.


      It'd be better if in part 3, Mako, Bolin and Korra were brainwashed, leaving Asami no choice but to work alongside Kuvira to save her friends, the woman who killed her father.


      I was on the fence about getting Ruins Of The Empire, now I know. I'm not getting it!

      That is all Asami is a damsel I tell people this and they get mad lol.
      Well whoever is writing the plot for these comics needs to be replaced, so someone can take over who'll do better than making Asami a cliche damsel in distress.
      Asami has never been anything more than an relationship trophy. She has zero depth by herself as acharacter. Hell even the relationship when she is suppose to be the one giving advice to Korra she isn't used. Makko has been the one they used to have those important talks with Korra. 

      I don't see Asami as only a relationship trophy, I hope the character get's some proper development in future LoK comics without her being shown to be weak in the comics or a damsel in distress with getting kidnapped or brainwashed, when in the show Asami could handle herself just fine..

      Example could have it family from Asami's mother's side are in the Fire Nation when the LoK comics have Asami and Korra go to the Fire Nation.

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    • I'd love the idea of exploring the modern Fire Nation! Considering how the fire nation was fairly advanced during ATLA in comparison to the other nations, it would be interesting to explore how the fire nation developed under Zuko's reign. However, I do agree that Asami lacks depth and development. To me the relationship doesn't make much sense.

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    • TheWingedLynx wrote: I'd love the idea of exploring the modern Fire Nation! Considering how the fire nation was fairly advanced during ATLA in comparison to the other nations, it would be interesting to explore how the fire nation developed under Zuko's reign. However, I do agree that Asami lacks depth and development. To me the relationship doesn't make much sense. I reccomend watching coolman229's videos about LOK's characters, if that is that you don't mind listening to some negative comments about the franchise.

      Lol, don't ever recommend that homophobic racist idiot here ever again. I'm not even joking how much of a bigot that freak is. He literally made several posts prior to Lok's finale about how gay marriage is wrong and immoral. Imagine listening to whatever that spiteful dude says.

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    • Korra2000 wrote: I was never sure if that was just something made up by fans or actually confirmed because I've never seen official confirmation on this. Do you know why he didn't die after all? And was Hiroshi originally supposed to die as well or did they decide that after deciding against Mako dying? Would be interesting to know.

      It's not really a big of deal, but they didn't want a gloomy ending and apparently it had to with them not wanting the audience to think Korra and Asami only got together because he died. Weird, I know, they make him seem like an afterthought. Hiroshi was always going to die from these turns of events.

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    • Fruipit
      Fruipit removed this reply because:
      image policy; images must be used on articles
      06:17, August 6, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • I have never seen any of his content apart from his videos... so eek.

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    • TheWingedLynx wrote:
      I'd love the idea of exploring the modern Fire Nation! Considering how the fire nation was fairly advanced during ATLA in comparison to the other nations, it would be interesting to explore how the fire nation developed under Zuko's reign.

      However, I do agree that Asami lacks depth and development. To me the relationship doesn't make much sense.

      It's a damn shame that the Fire Nation was never shown in LoK that was one of the few things I didn't like about the show. I hope we'll see the modern FN in a future LoK comic

      The show should've given Asami more screen time in Book 4 over Varrick, who I would've had be a loyal lackie to Kuvira in Book 4 if I wrote it and have him fight against Asami who wants revenge for what Varrick tried to do in Book 2 in stealing her company.

      To me, Korra and Asami's relationship makes perfect sense.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      I don't see Asami as only a relationship trophy, I hope the character [gets] some proper development in future LoK comics without her being shown to be weak in the comics or a damsel in distress with getting kidnapped or brainwashed, when in the show Asami could handle herself just fine.

      True, Asami could handle herself just fine in the show. Didn't mean there weren't times where she got kidnapped, captured or otherwise detained by a hostile party.

      Sergio N wrote:

      It's a damn shame that the Fire Nation was never shown in LoK that was one of the few things I didn't like about the show. I hope we'll see the modern FN in a future LoK comic.

      You're not the only one with that view. Me though, I want to know if Sokka and Suki got married/had kids.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:

      I don't see Asami as only a relationship trophy, I hope the character [gets] some proper development in future LoK comics without her being shown to be weak in the comics or a damsel in distress with getting kidnapped or brainwashed, when in the show Asami could handle herself just fine.

      True, Asami could handle herself just fine in the show. Didn't mean there weren't times where she got kidnapped, captured or otherwise detained by a hostile party.


      Sergio N wrote:

      It's a damn shame that the Fire Nation was never shown in LoK that was one of the few things I didn't like about the show. I hope we'll see the modern FN in a future LoK comic.

      You're not the only one with that view. Me though, I want to know if Sokka and Suki got married/had kids.

      Yeah but that happening twice in a row in two seperate LoK comic series, you can see why some like my nephew and myself fear the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her unnesessarly weak.

      Most likely Sokka and Suki did get married.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      Yeah but that happening twice in a row in two seperate LoK comic series, you can see why some like my nephew and myself fear the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her unnesessarly weak.

      It happened in books 1, 2 and 3, and twice in book 1. Also, when you and your nephew talk about Asami being made "weak", are you talking in terms of personality, or general fighting/survival ability?

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:

      Yeah but that happening twice in a row in two seperate LoK comic series, you can see why some like my nephew and myself fear the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her unnesessarly weak.

      It happened in books 1, 2 and 3, and twice in book 1. Also, when you and your nephew talk about Asami being made "weak", are you talking in terms of personality, or general fighting/survival ability?

      fighting and survival ability. If the next LoK comic series has Asami get kidnapped or abducted then it'll show my nephew is right about this. The comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:

      Yeah but that happening twice in a row in two seperate LoK comic series, you can see why some like my nephew and myself fear the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her unnesessarly weak.

      It happened in books 1, 2 and 3, and twice in book 1. Also, when you and your nephew talk about Asami being made "weak", are you talking in terms of personality, or general fighting/survival ability?

      fighting and survival ability. If the next LoK comic series has Asami get kidnapped or abducted then it'll show my nephew is right about this. The comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.

      I mean she fought back in Turf Wars like in Book 3, but the brainwashing sounds like utter bs and something I find trite/uninteresting. These comics sound boring. I didn't have much of a qualm against anything in Turf Wars since she was shown to be useful in part 3. I do find this trope annoying, however, since they're making it even worse here since she will have no agency whatsoever. I could care less if Bolin and Mako are brainwashed as well to lighten this up with the damsel in distress trope, because it doesn't do anything to lessen this blow.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:


      Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:

      Yeah but that happening twice in a row in two seperate LoK comic series, you can see why some like my nephew and myself fear the comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her unnesessarly weak.

      It happened in books 1, 2 and 3, and twice in book 1. Also, when you and your nephew talk about Asami being made "weak", are you talking in terms of personality, or general fighting/survival ability?
      fighting and survival ability. If the next LoK comic series has Asami get kidnapped or abducted then it'll show my nephew is right about this. The comics are taking the strong character Asami was in the show and making her weak.
      I mean she fought back in Turf Wars like in Book 3, but the brainwashing sounds like utter bs and something I find trite/uninteresting. These comics sound boring. I didn't have much of a qualm against anything in Turf Wars since she was shown to be useful in part 3. I do find this trope annoying, however, since they're making it even worse here since she will have no agency whatsoever. I could care less if Bolin and Mako are brainwashed as well to lighten this up with the damsel in distress trope, because it doesn't do anything to lessen this blow.

      Yeah the brainwashing is just bs, sounds like the comic is just going to have Mako, Bolin and Asami brainwashed so Korra and Kuvira are forced to work together which is just stupid.

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    • I already pointed out that Asami got captured/detained twice in Book 1, and once in Books 2 and 3, so it's hardly new to the comics. And it's not like her fighting ability has been drastically reduced. On the first occasion, she was simply arrested by Tarrlok, making little to no attempt to fight him off. Second occasion, she and the others walked into an electric fence. In Book 2, she was winded after a plane crash, and in Book 3, she had an earth prison bent around her, without even getting a chance to fight back.

      We didn't see how exactly she got kidnapped in Turf Wars, we were just told that she and her security people were suddenly and unexpectedly attacked in her office, which would have put anyone at a significant disadvantage. Plus, she didn't sit on her backside and wait to be rescued; she came up with and executed an escape plan that would have seen her and Wonyong freed and Tokuga's plot foiled if Tokuga didn't turn out to be immune to poison, something no-one besides Madam Wu could have predicted. As for Ruins of the Empire, we haven't yet seen the circumstances behind her being captured there, so I think it's a bit too soon to claim she's been made "weak".

      Really, if there is a problem here, it's that Korra has twice been put into a position of having to rescue Asami since the two of them became a couple. Personally I don't have too much of an issue with that plot point on its own; it's no better or worse than any other, and it's interesting to see how Korra reacts to her girlfriend being put in danger. Plus, it makes sense for Tokuga, Guan and Sheng to target Asami; she has engineering skills and the love of Korra, which they can put to use in their schemes. But yeah, I'd rather they not use it again if they don't need to, to avoid repetitiveness.

      As for the brainwashing being "bs", this is hardly the first time it's been used in this franchise.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      I already pointed out that Asami got captured/detained twice in Book 1, and once in Books 2 and 3, so it's hardly new to the comics. And it's not like her fighting ability has been drastically reduced. On the first occasion, she was simply arrested by Tarrlok, making little to no attempt to fight him off. Second occasion, she and the others walked into an electric fence. In Book 2, she was winded after a plane crash, and in Book 3, she had an earth prison bent around her, without even getting a chance to fight back.

      We didn't see how exactly she got kidnapped in Turf Wars, we were just told that she and her security people were suddenly and unexpectedly attacked in her office, which would have put anyone at a significant disadvantage. Plus, she didn't sit on her backside and wait to be rescued; she came up with and executed an escape plan that would have seen her and Wonyong freed and Tokuga's plot foiled if Tokuga didn't turn out to be immune to poison, something no-one besides Madam Wu could have predicted. As for Ruins of the Empire, we haven't yet seen the circumstances behind her being captured there, so I think it's a bit too soon to claim she's been made "weak".

      Really, if there is a problem here, it's that Korra has twice been put into a position of having to rescue Asami since the two of them became a couple. Personally I don't have too much of an issue with that plot point on its own; it's no better or worse than any other, and it's interesting to see how Korra reacts to her girlfriend being put in danger. Plus, it makes sense for Tokuga, Guan and Sheng to target Asami; she has engineering skills and the love of Korra, which they can put to use in their schemes. But yeah, I'd rather they not use it again if they don't need to, to avoid repetitiveness.

      As for the brainwashing being "bs", this is hardly the first time it's been used in this franchise.

      I take it you haven't seen the preview pages for Ruins Of The Empire on Airspeed Prime's Youtube profile in a recent video he uploade a few day ago, I just watched it and that basically shows how Guan's troops capture, Asami, Mako and Bolin, which I think is crap and  the bs of them being brainwashed is being done as a plot device just so Korra and Kuvira are forced to work together.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      I take it you haven't seen the preview pages for Ruins Of The Empire on Airspeed Prime's Youtube profile in a recent video he uploade a few day ago, I just watched it and that basically shows how Guan's troops capture, Asami, Mako and Bolin, which I think is crap and  the bs of them being brainwashed is being done as a plot device just so Korra and Kuvira are forced to work together.

      I haven't. I didn't know and even if I did, I don't want to be spoiled before buying the comic this time. I'll just say "to each their own."

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote: I already pointed out that Asami got captured/detained twice in Book 1, and once in Books 2 and 3, so it's hardly new to the comics. And it's not like her fighting ability has been drastically reduced. On the first occasion, she was simply arrested by Tarrlok, making little to no attempt to fight him off. Second occasion, she and the others walked into an electric fence. In Book 2, she was winded after a plane crash, and in Book 3, she had an earth prison bent around her, without even getting a chance to fight back.

      We didn't see how exactly she got kidnapped in Turf Wars, we were just told that she and her security people were suddenly and unexpectedly attacked in her office, which would have put anyone at a significant disadvantage. Plus, she didn't sit on her backside and wait to be rescued; she came up with and executed an escape plan that would have seen her and Wonyong freed and Tokuga's plot foiled if Tokuga didn't turn out to be immune to poison, something no-one besides Madam Wu could have predicted. As for Ruins of the Empire, we haven't yet seen the circumstances behind her being captured there, so I think it's a bit too soon to claim she's been made "weak".

      Really, if there is a problem here, it's that Korra has twice been put into a position of having to rescue Asami since the two of them became a couple. Personally I don't have too much of an issue with that plot point on its own; it's no better or worse than any other, and it's interesting to see how Korra reacts to her girlfriend being put in danger. Plus, it makes sense for Tokuga, Guan and Sheng to target Asami; she has engineering skills and the love of Korra, which they can put to use in their schemes. But yeah, I'd rather they not use it again if they don't need to, to avoid repetitiveness.

      As for the brainwashing being "bs", this is hardly the first time it's been used in this franchise.

      Well to be frank, I don't disagree with you. It's just that other times she gets out and has her agency, which is good. Brainwashing suggests she doesnt in this instance just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I already hate brainwashing narratives though, so I hated them even in the first avatar series. I find it rather boring. I think I, and possibly others, just want comics in the Fire Nation at this point lol.

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    • TheWingedLynx wrote:
      I have never seen any of his content apart from his videos... so eek.

      Yeah...I've dealt with that creep and his biases and his self-victimization before.  And he's come up in discussion here, too. Along with being a giant queerphobe, he rabidly hates Korra.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      TheWingedLynx wrote:
      I have never seen any of his content apart from his videos... so eek.
      Yeah...I've dealt with that creep and his biases and his self-victimization before.  And he's come up in discussion here, too. Along with being a giant queerphobe, he rabidly hates Korra.

      So he's a scumbag, good to know. I'll avoid any of his crap videos.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote: I already pointed out that Asami got captured/detained twice in Book 1, and once in Books 2 and 3, so it's hardly new to the comics. And it's not like her fighting ability has been drastically reduced. On the first occasion, she was simply arrested by Tarrlok, making little to no attempt to fight him off. Second occasion, she and the others walked into an electric fence. In Book 2, she was winded after a plane crash, and in Book 3, she had an earth prison bent around her, without even getting a chance to fight back.

      We didn't see how exactly she got kidnapped in Turf Wars, we were just told that she and her security people were suddenly and unexpectedly attacked in her office, which would have put anyone at a significant disadvantage. Plus, she didn't sit on her backside and wait to be rescued; she came up with and executed an escape plan that would have seen her and Wonyong freed and Tokuga's plot foiled if Tokuga didn't turn out to be immune to poison, something no-one besides Madam Wu could have predicted. As for Ruins of the Empire, we haven't yet seen the circumstances behind her being captured there, so I think it's a bit too soon to claim she's been made "weak".

      Really, if there is a problem here, it's that Korra has twice been put into a position of having to rescue Asami since the two of them became a couple. Personally I don't have too much of an issue with that plot point on its own; it's no better or worse than any other, and it's interesting to see how Korra reacts to her girlfriend being put in danger. Plus, it makes sense for Tokuga, Guan and Sheng to target Asami; she has engineering skills and the love of Korra, which they can put to use in their schemes. But yeah, I'd rather they not use it again if they don't need to, to avoid repetitiveness.

      As for the brainwashing being "bs", this is hardly the first time it's been used in this franchise.

      Well to be frank, I don't disagree with you. It's just that other times she gets out and has her agency, which is good. Brainwashing suggests she doesnt in this instance just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I already hate brainwashing narratives though, so I hated them even in the first avatar series. I find it rather boring. I think I, and possibly others, just want comics in the Fire Nation at this point lol.

      I hated the brainwashing in ATLA as well, having this happen again and having it that Asami, Mako and Bolin are brainwashed, so Koraa has no choice but to work together, that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, as Asami, Mako and Bolin are being used as polt devices!

      Yeah have the comics have to head to the Fire Nation next, in the next LoK comic trilogy, use that to give Asami some proper character development without her being kidnapped or brainwashed like Turf Wars and Ruin's of The Empire are doing!

      Maybe have some family of Asami's be in the FN like relatives from her mother's side of the family, or her father's for example. Like what I'm writing in a AU LoK fic set after Book 2 where's Asami's estranged grandfather arrives in Republic City to help her get her company back from the thief Varrick.

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    • So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.

      I felt the same way when I saw the preview pages, Asami, Mako and Bolin are just being used as cheap plot devices for Korra and Kuvira to work together and for Kuvira to earn some redemption and that annoys me.

      Yeah it always goes badly when villians like Kuvria are given more character development than main characters who need some character development! Namely, Asami! her being brainwashed doesn't give her any character development at all!

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    • Unlimited11 wrote:
       

      [1]


      Kuvira's true nature is revealed, and the Earth Kingdom will feel the consequences!

      Thanks to Commander Guan and Doctor Sheng's brainwashing technology, all hope for a fair election in the Earth Kingdom is lost. Korra works with Toph, Su, and Kuvira to plan a means to rescue not just the brainwashed Mako, Bolin, and Asami, but everyone else caught up in Guan's plan! With the Earth Empire potentially on the rise again, Kuvira pulls another trick from her sleeve... but whose side is she truly on?

      As a person that loves brainwashing as a plot device, I'm all in!

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.

      I felt the same way when I saw the preview pages, Asami, Mako and Bolin are just being used as cheap plot devices for Korra and Kuvira to work together and for Kuvira to earn some redemption and that annoys me.

      Yeah it always goes badly when villians like Kuvria are given more character development than main characters who need some character development! Namely, Asami! her being brainwashed doesn't give her any character development at all!

      Yeah, this story was to set up miss dictator as a creator's pet lol what even is this? Did Mike have a crush on her or something? Korra isn't even that important here lol. I just read the whole thing on a pirate website bc Im not wasting my money on this sh*t lmao.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:


      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.
      I felt the same way when I saw the preview pages, Asami, Mako and Bolin are just being used as cheap plot devices for Korra and Kuvira to work together and for Kuvira to earn some redemption and that annoys me.

      Yeah it always goes badly when villians like Kuvria are given more character development than main characters who need some character development! Namely, Asami! her being brainwashed doesn't give her any character development at all!

      Yeah, this story was to set up miss dictator as a creator's pet lol what even is this? Did Mike have a crush on her or something? Korra isn't even that important here lol. I just read the whole thing on a pirate website bc Im not wasting my money on this sh*t lmao.

      Yeah part 2 was terrible. We don't need a redemption arc for a dictator like Kuvira just cause she said some patheric sob story to Korra at the end of Book 4, which one of my friends thinks was a lie. I'm not buying this trilogy, I just watched a review of what happens in part 2 and wasnt impressed. This trilogy just makes, Mako, Bolin and Asami cheap plot devices to give kuvira a redemption arc she doesn't deserve, as she's committed crimes that need to be answered for.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.
      I felt the same way when I saw the preview pages, Asami, Mako and Bolin are just being used as cheap plot devices for Korra and Kuvira to work together and for Kuvira to earn some redemption and that annoys me.

      Yeah it always goes badly when villians like Kuvria are given more character development than main characters who need some character development! Namely, Asami! her being brainwashed doesn't give her any character development at all!

      Yeah, this story was to set up miss dictator as a creator's pet lol what even is this? Did Mike have a crush on her or something? Korra isn't even that important here lol. I just read the whole thing on a pirate website bc Im not wasting my money on this sh*t lmao.

      Yeah part 2 was terrible. We don't need a redemption arc for a dictator like Kuvira just cause she said some patheric sob story to Korra at the end of Book 4, which one of my friends thinks was a lie. I'm buying this trilogy, I just watched a review of what happens in part 2 and wasnt impressed. This trilogy just makes, Mako, Bolin and Asami cheap plot devices to give kuvira a redemption arc she doesn't deserve, as she's committed crimes that need to be answered for.

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done, I laughed so hard because I cannot take Kuvira's character seriously. All it is are piled on retcons, whitewashing her crimes, and messing with other characters' arcs to get her somewhere. I just cannot and will not care about her. Idk why bryke are insisting she should be redeemed while throwing the Krew under the bus. It's unsettling to say the least, and offensive to say the most.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:


      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:



      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      So I just read some of the previews and this is much more terrible and weird than I thought this plot was. Clearly, the Krew are now a plot device for Kuvira to help save and get trust, smh. Why is this vile woman allowed to more twists and turns as a character and get deemed as "complex." This is was the most redundant way to even go about a redemption, how lazy and cheap. It always ends up poorly when you uphold your villains over your main characters. Never does well.
      I felt the same way when I saw the preview pages, Asami, Mako and Bolin are just being used as cheap plot devices for Korra and Kuvira to work together and for Kuvira to earn some redemption and that annoys me.

      Yeah it always goes badly when villians like Kuvria are given more character development than main characters who need some character development! Namely, Asami! her being brainwashed doesn't give her any character development at all!

      Yeah, this story was to set up miss dictator as a creator's pet lol what even is this? Did Mike have a crush on her or something? Korra isn't even that important here lol. I just read the whole thing on a pirate website bc Im not wasting my money on this sh*t lmao.
      Yeah part 2 was terrible. We don't need a redemption arc for a dictator like Kuvira just cause she said some patheric sob story to Korra at the end of Book 4, which one of my friends thinks was a lie. I'm not buying this trilogy, I just watched a review of what happens in part 2 and wasnt impressed. This trilogy just makes, Mako, Bolin and Asami cheap plot devices to give kuvira a redemption arc she doesn't deserve, as she's committed crimes that need to be answered for.
      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done, I laughed so hard because I cannot take Kuvira's character seriously. All it is are piled on retcons, whitewashing her crimes, and messing with other characters' arcs to get her somewhere. I just cannot and will not care about her. Idk why bryke are insisting she should be redeemed while throwing the Krew under the bus. It's unsettling to say the least, and offensive to say the most.

      Yeah it's a massive retcon, in Book 4, she had non Earth Empire citizen's locked up in prison camps probably had them killed there, tried to have then Earth King Wu abducted by agents in Republic City, tried to forcibly take over Republic City with a full scale military invasion, killed who knows how many people in that invasion, plus who knows how many else she killed in her conquest of the Earth Kingdom with her army of thugs, had weapons of mass destruction made with Spirit Vine Weapons. Heck I got the impression that in Book 4, if she did conquer Republic City she wouldn't have stopped there and gone on to try and conquer the whole world.



      Kuvira's done things that have made her beyond redemption and the krew is being thrown under the bus like you say via some BS brainwashing which I'm sure Book 4 Kuvira would've been perfectly OK with using if she learned about it then, not this whitewash in the comics. All to try and get her some redemption that she doesn't deserve!

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    • I just really want Kuvira to fuck off.  And when she gets there, to repeat the proccess as needed.  And...yeah; I don't know why the hell they're trying to redeem her; she blew it.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote: I just really want Kuvira to fuck off.  And when she gets there, to repeat the proccess as needed.  And...yeah; I don't know why the hell they're trying to redeem her; she blew it.

      It's really telling though how nobody across all social media is really talking about these comics. Because personally, I find it annoying, contrived, BORING, and really indicative of how much of a creator's pet she really is. I don't know what Mike is thinking, all I know is that a change in writers needs to happen. ASAP. I am also very angry for the krew to be thrown under the bus like that. Specifically Asami. If bryke wanted to piss me off, they did it on all accounts.
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    • Actually, Tim Hedrick was involved with Ruins of the Empire Part 2 as well this time, so Mike isn't the only writer for this.

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    • Korra2000 wrote: Actually, Tim Hedrick was involved with Ruins of the Empire Part 2 as well this time, so Mike isn't the only writer for this.

      It doesnt really matter because I know he has to do mostly with the brainwashing stuff. Matter of fact is, I just want someone (not them) involved in this writing. Tim Hedrick also made writing decisions in Book 2, so that already doesn't delight me. They can be supervisors but that's it. Or rather they can go with writing actual novels and stop dabbling with the comic format, because it is clearly not working.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Deist Zealot wrote: I just really want Kuvira to fuck off.  And when she gets there, to repeat the proccess as needed.  And...yeah; I don't know why the hell they're trying to redeem her; she blew it.

      It's really telling though how nobody across all social media is really talking about these comics. Because personally, I find it annoying, contrived, BORING, and really indicative of how much of a creator's pet she really is. I don't know what Mike is thinking, all I know is that a change in writers needs to happen. ASAP. I am also very angry for the krew to be thrown under the bus like that. Specifically Asami. If bryke wanted to piss me off, they did it on all accounts.

      I hate characters that are clearly creators pet's like Liara in the Mass Effect Series and now Kuvira in LoK.

      I'm angry about that as well.

      I saw Airspeed Prime has criticised the brainwashing Ruins Of The Empire of Asami, Mako and Bolin in Part 2 in a recent video, saying it would've been better if Korra got brainwashed, fif anyone had to be, so Kuvira had work with those who distrust her the most, that happening would've been a good way to get Asami in particular much needed character development.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      It doesnt really matter because I know he has to do mostly with the brainwashing stuff. Matter of fact is, I just want someone (not them) involved in this writing. Tim Hedrick also made writing decisions in Book 2, so that already doesn't delight me. They can be supervisors but that's it. Or rather they can go with writing actual novels and stop dabbling with the comic format, because it is clearly not working.

      You have to keep in mind that the writers need to stick to what the actual creators of a show have in mind. I don't think that the writers have that much freedom as we assume (but I can be wrong as well).
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    • Kuvira deserves a second chance just like Zuko before her. Korra believes that, that's why she saved her life.

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    • Evil Yugi wrote:
      Kuvira deserves a second chance just like Zuko before her. Korra believes that, that's why she saved her life.

      You can't compare Kuvira and Zuko. Kuvira was a fascist dictator, who had dissidents and undesireables ie non Earth Empire citizens locked up in prison camps, sound familar to actions of another fascist dictator in real life history. Kuvira doesn't deserve a second chance.

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    • Sergio N wrote:
      Evil Yugi wrote:
      Kuvira deserves a second chance just like Zuko before her. Korra believes that, that's why she saved her life.
      You can't compare Kuvira and Zuko. Kuvira was a fascist dictator, who had dissidents and undesireables ie non Earth Empire citizens locked up in prison camps, sound familar to actions of another fascist dictator in real life history. Kuvira doesn't deserve a second chance.

      She showed clear regret. Therefore she does deserve another chance. All her intentions were was to help her people, which is noble in nature, she just went about it wrong.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      You can't compare Kuvira and Zuko. Kuvira was a fascist dictator, who had dissidents and undesireables ie non Earth Empire citizens locked up in prison camps, sound familar to actions of another fascist dictator in real life history. Kuvira doesn't deserve a second chance.

      And Zuko aided his sister in taking control of Ba Sing Se and subjecting its people to the tyranny of the Fire Nation. Who had non Fire Nation citizens locked up in prison camps.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done...

      This feels like a gross oversimplification to me. What Kuvira actually says during the part in question is that she never would have allowed Dr. Sheng to experiment with warping people's minds, had she known about it.

      All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway.

      Someone on the reddit did point out that having Kuvira be against brainwashing opens the door for her not being directly involved with some of the Earth Empire's other crimes - or at least the prison camps - which is fair enough. Nevertheless, the writers haven't gone this route, and I honestly doubt they will. They're not idiots, and the character arcs of Zuko and Hiroshi prove to me that they can handle redemptions.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done...

      This feels like a gross oversimplification to me. What Kuvira actually says during the part in question is that she never would have allowed Dr. Sheng to experiment with warping people's minds, had she known about it.

      All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway.

      Someone on the reddit did point out that having Kuvira be against brainwashing opens the door for her not being directly involved with some of the Earth Empire's other crimes - or at least the prison camps - which is fair enough. Nevertheless, the writers haven't gone this route, and I honestly doubt they will. They're not idiots, and the character arcs of Zuko and Hiroshi prove to me that they can handle redemptions.

      All anyone needs is a second chance. They wouldn't open the door for it if they weren't serious.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done...

      This feels like a gross oversimplification to me. What Kuvira actually says during the part in question is that she never would have allowed Dr. Sheng to experiment with warping people's minds, had she known about it.

      All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway.

      Someone on the reddit did point out that having Kuvira be against brainwashing opens the door for her not being directly involved with some of the Earth Empire's other crimes - or at least the prison camps - which is fair enough. Nevertheless, the writers haven't gone this route, and I honestly doubt they will. They're not idiots, and the character arcs of Zuko and Hiroshi prove to me that they can handle redemptions.

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done...

      This feels like a gross oversimplification to me. What Kuvira actually says during the part in question is that she never would have allowed Dr. Sheng to experiment with warping people's minds, had she known about it.

      All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway.

      Someone on the reddit did point out that having Kuvira be against brainwashing opens the door for her not being directly involved with some of the Earth Empire's other crimes - or at least the prison camps - which is fair enough. Nevertheless, the writers haven't gone this route, and I honestly doubt they will. They're not idiots, and the character arcs of Zuko and Hiroshi prove to me that they can handle redemptions.

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.

      And the thing is too, Hiroshi ended up dying and Asami almost died along with him. Kuvira herself only gave up at the last second until she had nowhere left to go. That doesnt sound like much regret to me, she literally says shes not even guilty in the first part and thinks the "good" she did outweighs the bad.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.


      And the thing is too, Hiroshi ended up dying and Asami almost died along with him. Kuvira herself only gave up at the last second until she had nowhere left to go. That doesnt sound like much regret to me, she literally says shes not even guilty in the first part and thinks the "good" she did outweighs the bad.

      Again, you're oversimplifying things. I never tried to excuse Kuvira threatening Bolin and Varrick or attacking Republic City with the spirit cannon. All I did was point out that you misread and misinterpreted one of Kuvira's lines of dialogue from the comic.

      Also, both Zuko and Azula are above the median age of criminal responsibility, just like Kuvira.

      Also also, it was Evil Yugi who claimed that Kuvira showed clear regret for what she did, not me. If you want to argue that point, go ahead, but don't falsely accuse me of spouting it.

      And what actually happens in the scene in question is that Kuvira plead not guilty after the tribunal - in her view - ignored her work in stabilizing the Earth Kingdom in favor of wanting to punish the crimes she committed. I won't deny that she thinks the good she did outweighs the bad though; that's certainly a valid interpretation based on her dialogue with Guan.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.


      And the thing is too, Hiroshi ended up dying and Asami almost died along with him. Kuvira herself only gave up at the last second until she had nowhere left to go. That doesnt sound like much regret to me, she literally says shes not even guilty in the first part and thinks the "good" she did outweighs the bad.

      Again, you're oversimplifying things. I never tried to excuse Kuvira threatening Bolin and Varrick or attacking Republic City with the spirit cannon. All I did was point out that you misread and misinterpreted one of Kuvira's lines of dialogue from the comic.

      Also, both Zuko and Azula are above the median age of criminal responsibility, just like Kuvira.

      Also also, it was Evil Yugi who claimed that Kuvira showed clear regret for what she did, not me. If you want to argue that point, go ahead, but don't falsely accuse me of spouting it.

      And what actually happens in the scene in question is that Kuvira plead not guilty after the tribunal - in her view - ignored her work in stabilizing the Earth Kingdom in favor of wanting to punish the crimes she committed. I won't deny that she thinks the good she did outweighs the bad though; that's certainly a valid interpretation based on her dialogue with Guan.

      Yeah see the thing is, we actually see Zuko being manipulated and abused as a kid. Kuvira has no such thing. There were merits for Zuko and actual development as such. Hiroshi dies, and Azula doesnt even get an actual redemption. I don't know whats so hard to see that for what it is.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.


      And the thing is too, Hiroshi ended up dying and Asami almost died along with him. Kuvira herself only gave up at the last second until she had nowhere left to go. That doesnt sound like much regret to me, she literally says shes not even guilty in the first part and thinks the "good" she did outweighs the bad.

      Again, you're oversimplifying things. I never tried to excuse Kuvira threatening Bolin and Varrick or attacking Republic City with the spirit cannon. All I did was point out that you misread and misinterpreted one of Kuvira's lines of dialogue from the comic.

      Also, both Zuko and Azula are above the median age of criminal responsibility, just like Kuvira.

      Also also, it was Evil Yugi who claimed that Kuvira showed clear regret for what she did, not me. If you want to argue that point, go ahead, but don't falsely accuse me of spouting it.

      And what actually happens in the scene in question is that Kuvira plead not guilty after the tribunal - in her view - ignored her work in stabilizing the Earth Kingdom in favor of wanting to punish the crimes she committed. I won't deny that she thinks the good she did outweighs the bad though; that's certainly a valid interpretation based on her dialogue with Guan.

      Yeah see the thing is, we actually see Zuko being manipulated and abused as a kid. Kuvira has no such thing. There were merits for Zuko and actual development as such. Hiroshi dies, and Azula doesnt even get an actual redemption. I don't know whats so hard to see that for what it is.

      Same thing can be said for Ozai. Like I said. The only thing she deserves is life in prison. Don't bother replying because you obviously will not criticize this writing.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Yeah see the thing is, we actually see Zuko being manipulated and abused as a kid. Kuvira has no such thing. There were merits for Zuko and actual development as such. Hiroshi dies, and Azula doesnt even get an actual redemption. I don't know whats so hard to see that for what it is. Same thing can be said for Ozai. Like I said. The only thing she deserves is life in prison. Don't bother replying because you obviously will not criticize this writing.

      I was planning to offer to drop the matter entirely, since I don't think we're going to agree on this.

      Also, don't presume to know what I'm "obviously" going to do. As far as I'm concerned, you don't know nearly enough about me to do that, and I've had to deal with way too many people making false assumptions about me.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      When I read the part where she said she would never ask for anything inhumane to be done...

      This feels like a gross oversimplification to me. What Kuvira actually says during the part in question is that she never would have allowed Dr. Sheng to experiment with warping people's minds, had she known about it.

      All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway.

      Someone on the reddit did point out that having Kuvira be against brainwashing opens the door for her not being directly involved with some of the Earth Empire's other crimes - or at least the prison camps - which is fair enough. Nevertheless, the writers haven't gone this route, and I honestly doubt they will. They're not idiots, and the character arcs of Zuko and Hiroshi prove to me that they can handle redemptions.

      That's what whitewashing is... LMAOOO. I can't believe I'm reading this. She literally threatens Bolin and Varrick into the camps herself. She uses a weapon of mass destruction to destroy everything in her way and I'm supposed to believe, she didn't mean it like that. Stop the nonsense apologia. I'm not going to entertain the thought of a grown ass woman being compared to a 16 year old minor or 14 year old girl manipulated by their father.

      I agree. These Kuvria apologists annoy me to no end, heck it's cause of people like that and fics that try to exuse Kuvria's crimes that i wrote a one-shot fic where Kuvira is murdered by Asami in revenge for what happened to her dad, with Korra helping her do it, once she learns the extent of Kuvira's crimes in the EK.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      I agree. These Kuvria apologists annoy me to no end, heck it's cause of people like that and fics that try to exuse Kuvria's crimes that i wrote a one-shot fic where Kuvira is murdered by Asami in revenge for what happened to her dad, with Korra helping her do it, once she learns the extent of Kuvira's crimes in the EK.

      There's being an apologist, and there's arguing that someone misread and misinterpreted a line of dialogue. If I had known that doing the latter would count as doing the former, I would have kept my mouth shut.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      I agree. These Kuvria apologists annoy me to no end, heck it's cause of people like that and fics that try to exuse Kuvria's crimes that i wrote a one-shot fic where Kuvira is murdered by Asami in revenge for what happened to her dad, with Korra helping her do it, once she learns the extent of Kuvira's crimes in the EK.

      There's being an apologist, and there's arguing that someone misread and misinterpreted a line of dialogue. If I had known that doing the latter would count as doing the former, I would have kept my mouth shut.

      First of all I'm not the only who finds that line disturbing and ridiculous. Look at threehoursfromtroy and lokgifsandmusings' podcast on tumblr. Plenty of other people called it out. And second of all, it doesn't help with the reasoning she thinks she's "not guilty." Figure out what that means. In any case any complexity this comic was seemingly going for casted itself out of the window with the brainwashing bs. If you're gonna act condescending, please let it be for a good reason, and not this questionable line of work Bryke put out. In fact question them, not me or others who find this offensive.

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    • First of all I'm not the only who finds that line disturbing and ridiculous. Look at threehoursfromtroy and lokgifsandmusings' podcast on tumblr. Plenty of other people called it out.

      What line? At no point in the comic did Kuvira say that she would, in your words, "never ask for anything inhumane to be done". Which, BTW, is what I pointed out to you earlier.

      Oh, wait. You're referring to when Kuvira said that she never would have allowed Dr Sheng to experiment with brainwashing had she known about it, and expressed a belief that it was inhumane. Well, if anyone thinks it's OOC for Kuvira to be against having people brainwashed, that's fine. It's an opinion, after all.

      If you're gonna act condescending, please let it be for a good reason, and not this questionable line of work Bryke put out. In fact question them, not me or others who find this offensive.

      I was wrongfully labeled as a Kuvira apologist by two people who didn't read my post properly. I'd say that's good enough reason for me to get condescending. Why don't you go back and read the post in question again, specifically this part? I've bolded it to make it easier for you to read/notice this time. No need for you to thank me.

      "All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway."

      I feel that if anything, I'm defending the writers way more than I am Kuvira here.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      First of all I'm not the only who finds that line disturbing and ridiculous. Look at threehoursfromtroy and lokgifsandmusings' podcast on tumblr. Plenty of other people called it out.

      What line? At no point in the comic did Kuvira say that she would, in your words, "never ask for anything inhumane to be done". Which, BTW, is what I pointed out to you earlier.

      Oh, wait. You're referring to when Kuvira said that she never would have allowed Dr Sheng to experiment with brainwashing had she known about it, and expressed a belief that it was inhumane. Well, if anyone thinks it's OOC for Kuvira to be against having people brainwashed, that's fine. It's an opinion, after all.

      If you're gonna act condescending, please let it be for a good reason, and not this questionable line of work Bryke put out. In fact question them, not me or others who find this offensive.

      I was wrongfully labeled as a Kuvira apologist by two people who didn't read my post properly. I'd say that's good enough reason for me to get condescending. Why don't you go back and read the post in question again, specifically this part? I've bolded it to make it easier for you to read/notice this time. No need for you to thank me.

      "All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway."

      I feel that if anything, I'm defending the writers way more than I am Kuvira here.

      No offense, but if she authorizes labor camps, I can't take her word seriously is what we all meant. It basically means the same thing. Its "going too far" by brainwashing when she was threatening people with labor camps... which essentially are used for brainwashing/propaganda nonetheless irl. They were literally called re-educational camps. That is hypocritical.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:

      First of all I'm not the only who finds that line disturbing and ridiculous. Look at threehoursfromtroy and lokgifsandmusings' podcast on tumblr. Plenty of other people called it out.

      What line? At no point in the comic did Kuvira say that she would, in your words, "never ask for anything inhumane to be done". Which, BTW, is what I pointed out to you earlier.

      Oh, wait. You're referring to when Kuvira said that she never would have allowed Dr Sheng to experiment with brainwashing had she known about it, and expressed a belief that it was inhumane. Well, if anyone thinks it's OOC for Kuvira to be against having people brainwashed, that's fine. It's an opinion, after all.

      If you're gonna act condescending, please let it be for a good reason, and not this questionable line of work Bryke put out. In fact question them, not me or others who find this offensive.

      I was wrongfully labeled as a Kuvira apologist by two people who didn't read my post properly. I'd say that's good enough reason for me to get condescending. Why don't you go back and read the post in question again, specifically this part? I've bolded it to make it easier for you to read/notice this time. No need for you to thank me.

      "All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway."

      I feel that if anything, I'm defending the writers way more than I am Kuvira here.

      No offense, but if she authorizes labor camps, I can't take her word seriously is what we all meant. It basically means the same thing. Its "going too far" by brainwashing when she was threatening people with labor camps... which essentially are used for brainwashing/propaganda nonetheless irl. They were literally called re-educational camps. That is hypocritical.

      Can't believe I have to explain that, but here we are. Here's an example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:

      First of all I'm not the only who finds that line disturbing and ridiculous. Look at threehoursfromtroy and lokgifsandmusings' podcast on tumblr. Plenty of other people called it out.

      What line? At no point in the comic did Kuvira say that she would, in your words, "never ask for anything inhumane to be done". Which, BTW, is what I pointed out to you earlier.

      Oh, wait. You're referring to when Kuvira said that she never would have allowed Dr Sheng to experiment with brainwashing had she known about it, and expressed a belief that it was inhumane. Well, if anyone thinks it's OOC for Kuvira to be against having people brainwashed, that's fine. It's an opinion, after all.


      If you're gonna act condescending, please let it be for a good reason, and not this questionable line of work Bryke put out. In fact question them, not me or others who find this offensive.

      I was wrongfully labeled as a Kuvira apologist by two people who didn't read my post properly. I'd say that's good enough reason for me to get condescending. Why don't you go back and read the post in question again, specifically this part? I've bolded it to make it easier for you to read/notice this time. No need for you to thank me.

      "All that's done is show/imply that even when she was being written as a villain, she had at least one line she wouldn't cross. It doesn't automatically whitewash or retcon any of her previous crimes, none of which Parts 1 and 2 have even tried to excuse, as far as I recall anyway."

      I feel that if anything, I'm defending the writers way more than I am Kuvira here.

      No offense, but if she authorizes labor camps, I can't take her word seriously is what we all meant. It basically means the same thing. Its "going too far" by brainwashing when she was threatening people with labor camps... which essentially are used for brainwashing/propaganda nonetheless irl. They were literally called re-educational camps. That is hypocritical.

      Agreed. If Kuvira could set up re-education camps and labour camps, locking up non Earth Empire citizens in Book 4, she'd no doubt fully approve of Dr Sheng's brainwashing tech. The comics are just whitewashing all that, in favour of some unearned redemption arc!

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    • No offense, but if she authorizes labor camps, I can't take her word seriously is what we all meant. It basically means the same thing. Its "going too far" by brainwashing when she was threatening people with labor camps... which essentially are used for brainwashing/propaganda nonetheless irl. They were literally called re-educational camps. That is hypocritical.

      Can't believe I have to explain that, but here we are. Here's an example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

      You really don't. I'm perfectly familiar with the concept of re-education camps. And yes, I consider them a Bad Thing, and no, I won't deny that Kuvira had people thrown into them. 

      That's right. I pointed out that Kuvira did something villanous. She was written as an antagonist in Book 4, after all.

      Agreed. If Kuvira could set up re-education camps and labour camps, locking up non Earth Empire citizens in Book 4, she'd no doubt fully approve of Dr Sheng's brainwashing tech.

      The first problem I have with this argument and the ones presented by ImperfectClock7 is that so far in the Avatarverse, the term "brainwashing" has only been used to refer to "using hypnosis/technology to alter people's memories/opinions/personalities". Which isn't nearly the full spectrum of brainwashing/mind control techniques, and is all that Kuvira is shown objecting to, on the basis that she wanted people to choose to follow her, rather than make the choice for them.

      As for whether what was happening in the re-education and labour camps prove that Kuvira would have supported Dr Sheng's research, I don't feel there's enough evidence to conclusively say that. If Wikipedia is to be believed, the Xinjiang camps aren't indicative of all re-education camps in the world, or even all the ones in China .

      And besides a vague reference to "inhumane prison camps", the only such facility we see in the show is the one where the Beifongs were imprisoned in "Operation Beifong", and it's nothing more than a wooden cage suspended in an underground cavern. We don't see or hear of anything being done to re-educate the Beifongs during their imprisonment. I'd go so far as to say that, without Bolin specifically referring to it as such, you'd be hard pressed to see it as anything more than an ordinary anti-metalbender prison.

      The comics are just whitewashing all that, in favour of some unearned redemption arc!

      Sorry, but this just comes off as an overly pessimistic exaggeration to me.

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    • Leaving aside Kuvira for a moment, I'm actually feeling a lot more hopeful now that I've read Part Two and seen the ending. With Asami rescued and Kuvira planning to work with Baatar Jr. to break the brainwashing on her, I have a feeling that she'll play an important role in Part Three, rather than just being a damsel for Korra to rescue (again).

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Leaving aside Kuvira for a moment, I'm actually feeling a lot more hopeful now that I've read Part Two and seen the ending. With Asami rescued and Kuvira planning to work with Baatar Jr. to break the brainwashing on her, I have a feeling that she'll play an important role in Part Three, rather than just being a damsel for Korra to rescue (again).

      Well the case could be made that Asami was reduced to being a dmsel again in Part Two, being abducted by Guan and his forces, along with Mako & Bolin and being brainwashed. Frankly the LoK comics are not doing the character justice, reducing the character to a cheap plot device and a damsel in distress in both Turf Wars and ROTE, The next LoK trilogy need to give the character some proper development without being damseled, as that is not character development, not at all.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote:
      Leaving aside Kuvira for a moment, I'm actually feeling a lot more hopeful now that I've read Part Two and seen the ending. With Asami rescued and Kuvira planning to work with Baatar Jr. to break the brainwashing on her, I have a feeling that she'll play an important role in Part Three, rather than just being a damsel for Korra to rescue (again).

      Well the case could be made that Asami was reduced to being a dmsel again in Part Two, being abducted by Guan and his forces, along with Mako & Bolin and being brainwashed. Frankly the LoK comics are not doing the character justice, reducing the character to a cheap plot device and a damsel in distress in both Turf Wars and ROTE, The next LoK trilogy need to give the character some proper development without being damseled, as that is not character development, not at all.

      This guy is in denial and thinks Kuvira was only asking others to follow her, as if throwing others into re-education camps exemplifies whatever the hell her character meant in Part 2 lmandndkdlss (it's bs) and the whole agency thing throughout the comic is really taken out back with the brainwashing sh*t. None of these points bryke are trying to make will matter. Dude also doesn't get that people already found the brainwashing in atla itself contrived as well.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      This guy is in denial and thinks Kuvira was only asking others to follow her, as if throwing others into re-education camps exemplifies whatever the hell her character meant in Part 2 lmandndkdlss (it's bs)...

      As opposed to you being in denial and thinking Kuvira was only intended to be seen as 100% evil, without any kind of nuance?


      Also, pfft. As if I would make such a nonsensical claim, given how Kuvira was explicitly said to be conscripting people in The Battle of Zaofu. All I've argued is that there's no decisive evidence in the show that says Kuvira would have approved of the Dai Li's methods. That is, directly modifying people's minds as opposed to indirectly doing it through a prison camp. Yet again, you're getting delusional and oversimplifying things simply because I don't have a massive hate-boner for Kuvira.


      To use an analogy, it's the difference between first degree murder and second degree murder/involuntary manslaughter; both are bad, yet someone who carries out the latter won't necessarily be willing to commit the former. To use another, saying that Kuvira would "no doubt fully approve of Dr Sheng's brainwashing tech." just because of a few mentions of re-education camps is like saying that Korra is "no doubt heterosexual" just because she dated Mako.

      Dude also doesn't get that people already found the brainwashing in atla itself contrived as well.

      Opinions, bud. Personally I wasn't really bothered by the inclusion of brainwashing.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      This guy is in denial and thinks Kuvira was only asking others to follow her, as if throwing others into re-education camps exemplifies whatever the hell her character meant in Part 2 lmandndkdlss (it's bs)...

      As opposed to you being in denial and thinking Kuvira was only intended to be seen as 100% evil, without any kind of nuance?


      Also, pfft. As if I would make such a nonsensical claim, given how Kuvira was explicitly said to be conscripting people in The Battle of Zaofu. All I've argued is that there's no decisive evidence in the show that says Kuvira would have approved of the Dai Li's methods. That is, directly modifying people's minds as opposed to indirectly doing it through a prison camp. Yet again, you're getting delusional and oversimplifying things simply because I don't have a massive hate-boner for Kuvira.


      To use an analogy, it's the difference between first degree murder and second degree murder/involuntary manslaughter; both are bad, yet someone who carries out the latter won't necessarily be willing to commit the former. To use another, saying that Kuvira would "no doubt fully approve of Dr Sheng's brainwashing tech." just because of a few mentions of re-education camps is like saying that Korra is "no doubt heterosexual" just because she dated Mako.

      Dude also doesn't get that people already found the brainwashing in atla itself contrived as well.

      Opinions, bud. Personally I wasn't really bothered by the inclusion of brainwashing.

      I'm not reading any of this. Good luck trying to convince me of a problematic ass character's "good will" onto others. I call bs when I see it. It goes beyond writing, it's just culturally insensitive given today's context. Would I be more inclined to be more forgiving in 2015, maybe, but given the political onslaught of today's society since 2016, I maintain this is not the way. It is entirely insensitive and grossly formulated. And yes this has to do with me personally, I don't give a damn if your privilege is immune to see otherwise. You're not going to shake my opinions away, and I don't care for yours or Bryke telling me this character HAS to be redeemed. I just don't.

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    • @ImperfectClock7

      Fair enough. I was going to suggest we bring this discussion to a close anyhow. Neither of us is going to sway the other, we're both becoming overly hostile, and I don't really care for this sort of thing in the leadup to Christmas. I hope we can engage in more fruitful discussions another time.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote: @ImperfectClock7

      Fair enough. I was going to suggest we bring this discussion to a close anyhow. Neither of us is going to sway the other, we're both becoming overly hostile, and I don't really care for this sort of thing in the leadup to Christmas. I hope we can engage in more fruitful discussions another time.

      I just read what you wrote this time, don't ever compare Kuvira having re-educational camps to Korra's sexuality. Fr full stop. I'm actually really disgusted you used this as an analogy. As someone who is in the LGBT+ community, I never want you to respond or @ me ever again.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Jaydude1992 wrote: @ImperfectClock7

      Fair enough. I was going to suggest we bring this discussion to a close anyhow. Neither of us is going to sway the other, we're both becoming overly hostile, and I don't really care for this sort of thing in the leadup to Christmas. I hope we can engage in more fruitful discussions another time.

      I just read what you wrote this time, don't ever compare Kuvira having re-educational camps to Korra's sexuality. Fr full stop. I'm actually really disgusted you used this as an analogy. As someone who is in the LGBT+ community, I never want you to respond or @ me ever again.

      Agreed. That was a terrible analogy, as someone with a friend who's gay that really mde me mad. Jaydude1992, don't respond or @ to me ever again either.

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    • For what it's worth, I'm sorry to the both of you. I honestly did not mean to cause offense. I won't bother you again.

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    • This redemption arc is just not needed. Kuvira pulled an entire nation from the grave and turned it into a powerful empire. Without Avatar power. Throughout the show, there are no characters whose achievements can be compared to this. Avatar does not count. The action that a feat for a man, for god it’s just a warm-up. Her loyalty to the Earth nation is absolute. And she doesn't need more.

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    • Integer115 wrote:
      This redemption arc is just not needed. Kuvira pulled an entire nation from the grave and turned it into a powerful empire.

      Except that as part of this process, Kuvira became a dictator, threw people into what the comics describe as "inhumane prison camps", used spiritual energy to create a WMD, and invaded the United Republic with said WMD, resulting in a lot of Republic City getting destroyed. And that's not getting into Kuvira's offences against Suyin, i.e. betraying her and everything she stood for, attacking and occupying Zaofu, and nearly killing Baatar Jr.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      Except that as part of this process, Kuvira became a dictator, threw people into what the comics describe as "inhumane prison camps", used spiritual energy to create a WMD, and invaded the Untied Republic with said WMD, resulting in a lot of Republic City getting destroyed. And that's not getting into Kuvira's offences against Suyin, i.e. betraying her and everything she stood for, attacking and occupying Zaofu, and nearly killing Baatar Jr.

      Pulling a nation from a grave is a very dirty and very hard job. Cao Cao and Nobunaga Oda confirm this. 
      There is enough danger from the next war to create camps. Franklin Roosevelt confirm this. 
      Avatar freely uses spiritual energy as a weapon. And her strength is comparable to WMD.
      Future republic established by Fire Nation colonial occupation administration. Earth Kingdom lost a part of its territory. And they did not receive any compensation.
      Suyin with her sons attempted to assassinate Kuvira. Suyin is a typical feudal lord. Kuvira put an end to feudal fragmentation. Kuvira had rights to make Zaofu technologies a property of the all Earth Nation people.

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    • First off, I'm quite grateful to you for not slinging insults at me just because I've dared to have a different opinion than yours.

      Pulling a nation from a grave is a very dirty and very hard job. Cao Cao and Nobunaga Oda confirm this.

      Except that from what we see in the show, there was never any need for Kuvira to become a dictator just to restore order to the Earth Kingdom, whatever she may have thought. In Yi for example, she could have just given the people her supplies from the start, which is really what she should have done as acting head of the Earth Kingdom.

      There is enough danger from the next war to create camps. Franklin Roosevelt confirm this.

      Except that the main reason there was a risk of another war was because Kuvira took control of the Earth Kingdom against the wishes of the other nations, and was planning to conquer the United Republic. Otherwise, she would have had no reason to intern people of non Earth Kingdom descent.

      Also, the internment of Japanese-Americans is widely considered to be a crime against humanity, unnecessary for the security of America during the war, and motivated more by racism than concerns over security.

      And then there's the implication that Kuvira was locking up anyone who dared speak out against her, if her behaviour towards Bolin is to be believed - when he tries to argue that there's no need to conquer Zaofu, she immediately threatens to send him to a reeducation camp rather than simply explain her motives, or even just dismiss him from the room.

      Avatar freely uses spiritual energy as a weapon. And her strength is comparable to WMD.

      Except that first came about from an agreement between Wan and Raava, and so far it's implied that none of the Avatars besides Wan and Korra know that they get their powers from a spirit. Whereas Kuvira was deliberately having her forces chopping up the banyan grove tree.

      Future republic established by Fire Nation colonial occupation administration. Earth Kingdom lost a part of its territory. And they did not receive any compensation.

      Yu Dao could probably have functioned the same under Kuei's rule, assuming he allowed the Fire Nation colonials and their descendants to stay, but at the end of the day he agreed to grant it independence, along with the other territories of the United Republic. I can buy Kuvira thinking that Kuei was somehow strong-armed into it by Aang and Zuko, but since there's no proof that that's what actually happened, Kuvira believing it did doesn't make her automatically in the right here.

      Suyin with her sons attempted to assassinate Kuvira. Suyin is a typical feudal lord. Kuvira put an end to feudal fragmentation. Kuvira had rights to make Zaofu technologies a property of the all Earth Nation people.

      Kuvira had already crossed the line with Suyin by becoming a dictator, and she was going to forcibly occupy Zaofu. Suyin wanted no part in supporting a dictatorship she considered worse than that of Hou-Ting, however noble Kuvira's intentions might have been.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:
      First off, I'm quite grateful to you for not slinging insults at me just because I've dared to have a different opinion than yours.

      in the show, there was never any need for Kuvira to become a dictator .

      main reason there was a risk of another war was because.

      agreement between Wan and Raava.

      I can buy Kuvira thinking that Kuei was somehow strong-armed into it by Aang and Zuko, but since there's no proof that that's what actually happened, Kuvira believing it did doesn't make her automatically in the right here.

      Kuvira had already crossed the line with Suyin by becoming a dictator, and she was going to forcibly occupy Zaofu. 

      Why I should?

      More precisely, the show shows that even the palace guards is a bunch of robbers and destroyers. By the time the 4th book begins, each village is a bastion of a local warlord or gang leader or merchant. The only way to restore a destroyed country is to close the entire infrastructure on one center. And around this center, statehood will grow again. Of course, all local forces will be against it. So - you need to become a dictator.

      Foreign leaders wanted to surround Wu with their advisers to tell him what and how to do. Kuvira, for her part, was independent and loyal only to the Earth nation. When the plan with the puppet king failed, they decided to kill Kuvira. This is an objective casus belli.

      To close the camps topic. Even a man without weapons can do a lot to undermine the state’s combat capability from within. And every single bender is an analogue of a walking reusable rocket launcher. 

      Kuvira had no enemies other than the enemies of Earth Empire.

      When only one power owns WMD, this turning it into a world gendarme who decide the fate of entire nations. How Avatar did. Kuvira tried to take the fate of the Earth nation from Avatar hands into her own. 

      All territorial disputes have an objective and subjective side.

      And Kuvira wanted to get rid of feudal remnants. Like Louis XI during Burgundian Wars.  Or Otto von Bismarck with  unification of Germany.

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    • Why I should?

      Earlier in this thread I expressed the opinion that it wasn't OOC for Kuvira to be against mind control, and that her not approving of it didn't automatically whitewash any of her other crimes. This resulted in two people accusing me of being a Kuvira apologist.

      More precisely, the show shows that even the palace guards is a bunch of robbers and destroyers.

      That was just one guard we saw co-operating with the looters, and I'm pretty sure that was intended as more of a gag, rather than a representation of all the guards.

      By the time the 4th book begins, each village is a bastion of a local warlord or gang leader or merchant. The only way to restore a destroyed country is to close the entire infrastructure on one center. And around this center, statehood will grow again. Of course, all local forces will be against it. So - you need to become a dictator.

      There were definitely bandits running rampant, but in Yi, the governor was in control, and the main problem was bandits preventing supplies from getting to the towns. You don't need to use dictatorial means to solve that problem, you could just deal with the bandits and deliver/provide supplies to those who needed them. The Air Nation tried to do that through Kai, Opal and Lefty, and the only reason they failed was because they didn't have the numbers or resources Kuvira did.

      Foreign leaders wanted to surround Wu with their advisers to tell him what and how to do. Kuvira, for her part, was independent and loyal only to the Earth nation. When the plan with the puppet king failed, they decided to kill Kuvira. This is an objective casus belli.

      I can certainly buy Kuvira and others in the Earth Kingdom believing that the other nations wanted to use Wu as a puppet leader. Problem is, there's no proof that that's what would happen, or that Wu and his advisors would be an inherently poor government.

      Also, it was only Su who tried to kill Kuvira. The other leaders just wanted her to stand down at first, and even after Zaofu was taken and Kuvira was discovered to be working on her spirit weapon, none of the world leaders besides Raiko wanted to move against her, at least not without a good excuse.

      To close the camps topic. Even a man without weapons can do a lot to undermine the state’s combat capability from within. And every single bender is an analogue of a walking reusable rocket launcher. 

      That may be true, but there are still the matters of "right to free speech" and "innocent until proven guilty." Which Kuvira ignored for the dissidents and people of non Earth Kingdom descent, respectively.

      Kuvira had no enemies other than the enemies of Earth Empire.

      Not sure where you're going with this.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      only reason they failed was because they didn't have the numbers or resources Kuvira did.

      I can certainly buy Kuvira and others in the Earth Kingdom believing that the other nations wanted to use Wu as a puppet leader. Problem is, there's no proof that that's what would happen, or that Wu and his advisors would be an inherently poor government.

      Also, it was only Su who tried to kill Kuvira. The other leaders just wanted her to stand down at first, and even after Zaofu was taken and Kuvira was discovered to be working on her spirit weapon, none of the world leaders besides Raiko wanted to move against her, at least not without a good excuse.

      Kuvira has so many resources just because other local forces obeyed her. Before you allocate resources, you need to accumulate them. This governor was just an item on the list.

      The leader of the state listening to foreign advisers is a ready-made puppet. State affairs will be managed by foreigners  

      Raiko We'll be sending a delegation of experienced advisers to handle day-to-day governing.

      Other leaders refused to start a full-scale war. Getting rid of Kuvira was acceptable to them.

      "right to free speech" and "innocent until proven guilty"  -  it secondarily regarding the wartime law.

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    • The leader of the state listening to foreign advisers is a ready-made puppet. State affairs will be managed by foreigners.

      I might see this as a bad thing in real-life, but the main reason I don't in this case is because there's no indication that Raiko and the other leaders would have been like the US and used their influence to oppress the people of the Earth Kingdom for their own profit.

      Also, Wu lacked the motivation and skills necessary to rule back then. There was no alternative other than sending over ministers/advisors, if the Earth Kingdom was to have a stable government.

      "right to free speech" and "innocent until proven guilty"  -  it secondarily regarding the wartime law.

      Even if I believed that - which I don't - the only reason wartime law became a thing in this scenario is because Kuvira antagonized the world leaders by seizing power for herself. And as with the Japanese-Americans during WW2, there's little-to-no evidence that the people of non Earth Kingdom descent were against Kuvira. She basically locked them up for no reason other than her own paranoia.

      Other leaders refused to start a full-scale war. Getting rid of Kuvira was acceptable to them.

      As far as I remember, we don't see how the other leaders react to the attempt on Kuvira's life.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      There was no alternative other than sending over ministers/advisors, 


      Kuvira antagonized the world leaders by seizing power for herself.


      As far as I remember, we don't see how the other leaders react to the attempt on Kuvira's life.

      This is not just a question of good or evil intentions. This is question of sovereignty. And the alternative is Kuvira.  As viewers, we know that this is a fictional story. But in the hands of the heroes of this story there is no script. Kuvira in her decisions proceeded from the worst case scenario. And it’s hard to blame her for it.

      Foreign leaders began to intervene in the affairs of the Earth Kingdom/Empire much earlier.

      Somewhere there was a condemnation of Suyin's act? 

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    • I just want to know if there will be more new trilogies after the third part.

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    • Hong Shen wrote:
      I just want to know if there will be more new trilogies after the third part.

      That's something I'd like to know as well,hopefully the next LoK trilogy does better with Asami's character then Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire have.

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    • You are right because it would be good to explore Asami more in the next or future trilogy.

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    • Hong Shen wrote:
      You are right because it would be good to explore Asami more in the next or future trilogy.

      Exactly and without her being kidnapped or brainwashed as that happening in Turf Wars and Ruin's of The Empire is a big mark against those trilogies.

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    • Sergio N wrote:
      Hong Shen wrote:
      You are right because it would be good to explore Asami more in the next or future trilogy.
      Exactly and without her being kidnapped or brainwashed as that happening in Turf Wars and Ruin's of The Empire is a big mark against those trilogies.

      And what do you want to happen in the next comics.

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    • Hong Shen wrote:
      Sergio N wrote:
      Hong Shen wrote:
      You are right because it would be good to explore Asami more in the next or future trilogy.
      Exactly and without her being kidnapped or brainwashed as that happening in Turf Wars and Ruin's of The Empire is a big mark against those trilogies.
      And what do you want to happen in the next comics.

      Have it set in the Fire Nation, finally have Korra and the team go there and have Asami be the focus, have her reconnect with relatives she has in the Fire Nation from her mother's side of the family, use that to give her some character development and have it the Red Lotus are in the FN causing chaos under a new leader.

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    • I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.

      Agreed. I saw the preview pages as well, inculding those taking place near the end. Part 3 is terrible. Korra doesn't do much and Asami, Mako and Bolin are just cheap plot devices. The next LoK comic trilogy better be a damn lot better than Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire were!

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.

      Agreed. I saw the preview pages as well, inculding those taking place near the end. Part 3 is terrible. Korra doesn't do much and Asami, Mako and Bolin are just cheap plot devices. The next LoK comic trilogy better be a damn lot better than Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire were!

      They put more emotional emphasis in the crap Kuvira apparently goes through and completely ran off and threw off whatever emotional trauma they put through the krew, particularly on Korra and Asami and acted like it was nothing. Not impressed, disgusted and tired. It was drama for the sake of drama and didn't take it seriously again. They better actually talk this out down the line because it is absolutely worthless to put your characters on the back burner for nothing other to uphold a character that is honestly so boring and spoonfed. She destroyed the city that people berated Korra and Asami to fix, and got off with a light hand. Like what is this mess? I can't even enjoy the Korrasami moments because of it.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.
      Agreed. I saw the preview pages as well, inculding those taking place near the end. Part 3 is terrible. Korra doesn't do much and Asami, Mako and Bolin are just cheap plot devices. The next LoK comic trilogy better be a damn lot better than Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire were!
      They put more emotional emphasis in the crap Kuvira apparently goes through and completely ran off and threw off whatever emotional trauma they put through the krew, particularly on Korra and Asami and acted like it was nothing. Not impressed, disgusted and tired. It was drama for the sake of drama and didn't take it seriously again. They better actually talk this out down the line because it is absolutely worthless to put your characters on the back burner for nothing other to uphold a character that is honestly so boring and spoonfed. She destroyed the city that people berated Korra and Asami to fix, and got off with a light hand. Like what is this mess? I can't even enjoy the Korrasami moments because of it.

      Yeah the next trilogy should show people in Republic City and in the EK not at all happy about Kuvira's punishment handed out at the end of ROTE as well as people in other nations who were locked up in her prisons for foreigners espically in the Fire Nation. That could be used to have Team Avatar go to the Fire Nation.

      As I said all along the brainwashing of Asami, Mako and Bolin was completely unecessary espically as what's was shown in the pages I saw is the aftermath of it.

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    • I hope that in the future comics of The Legend of Korra already it is possible to explore well what happened with the Fire Nation after the end of the 100 years war.

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    • Hong Shen wrote:
      I hope that in the future comics of The Legend of Korra already it is possible to explore well what happened with the Fire Nation after the end of the 100 years war.

      Agreed.

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.
      Agreed. I saw the preview pages as well, inculding those taking place near the end. Part 3 is terrible. Korra doesn't do much and Asami, Mako and Bolin are just cheap plot devices. The next LoK comic trilogy better be a damn lot better than Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire were!
      They put more emotional emphasis in the crap Kuvira apparently goes through and completely ran off and threw off whatever emotional trauma they put through the krew, particularly on Korra and Asami and acted like it was nothing. Not impressed, disgusted and tired. It was drama for the sake of drama and didn't take it seriously again. They better actually talk this out down the line because it is absolutely worthless to put your characters on the back burner for nothing other to uphold a character that is honestly so boring and spoonfed. She destroyed the city that people berated Korra and Asami to fix, and got off with a light hand. Like what is this mess? I can't even enjoy the Korrasami moments because of it.

      Yeah the next trilogy should show people in Republic City and in the EK not at all happy about Kuvira's punishment handed out at the end of ROTE as well as people in other nations who were locked up in her prisons for foreigners espically in the Fire Nation. That could be used to have Team Avatar go to the Fire Nation.

      As I said all along the brainwashing of Asami, Mako and Bolin was completely unecessary espically as what's was shown in the pages I saw is the aftermath of it.

      LMAOOO the whole thing just leaked on readcomicsonline, and they 100% just made incest canon with baavira. Had Kuvira literally refer to Opal and Su as sister and mother. They completely retconned everything in their dynamics/relationships for this half-assed garbage LMAOOOO. Bryke really are hiding their tails between their legs. I'm so grossed out. This was so cowardly done.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:


      ImperfectClock7 wrote:
      I seriously want to know what bryke's problem is and the insistence of sidelining their protagonists to hand out redemption cards like they're free candy. So I read the previews of this shitty comic, and Korra herself doesn't do anything much useful if at all. The Krew was 100% used as plot devices to make Kuvira look better. And they all basically forgave her. She's just 100% a mary sue.
      Agreed. I saw the preview pages as well, inculding those taking place near the end. Part 3 is terrible. Korra doesn't do much and Asami, Mako and Bolin are just cheap plot devices. The next LoK comic trilogy better be a damn lot better than Turf Wars and Ruins of The Empire were!
      They put more emotional emphasis in the crap Kuvira apparently goes through and completely ran off and threw off whatever emotional trauma they put through the krew, particularly on Korra and Asami and acted like it was nothing. Not impressed, disgusted and tired. It was drama for the sake of drama and didn't take it seriously again. They better actually talk this out down the line because it is absolutely worthless to put your characters on the back burner for nothing other to uphold a character that is honestly so boring and spoonfed. She destroyed the city that people berated Korra and Asami to fix, and got off with a light hand. Like what is this mess? I can't even enjoy the Korrasami moments because of it.
      Yeah the next trilogy should show people in Republic City and in the EK not at all happy about Kuvira's punishment handed out at the end of ROTE as well as people in other nations who were locked up in her prisons for foreigners espically in the Fire Nation. That could be used to have Team Avatar go to the Fire Nation.

      As I said all along the brainwashing of Asami, Mako and Bolin was completely unecessary espically as what's was shown in the pages I saw is the aftermath of it.

      LMAOOO the whole thing just leaked on readcomicsonline, and they 100% just made incest canon with baavira. Had Kuvira literally refer to Opal and Su as sister and mother. They completely retconned everything in their dynamics/relationships for this half-assed garbage LMAOOOO. Bryke really are hiding their tails between their legs. I'm so grossed out. This was so cowardly done.

      Just read it myself. Part 3 was really bad!

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    • Apparently everyone is very excited.

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    • Well, I was really unpleasantly surprised by Kuvira/Su/Opal relationships in the past. Baavira really looks like incest now. Disgusting. Everything is so twisted in this trilogy, i'm dissapointed.

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    • Wellfine wrote:
      Well, I was really unpleasantly surprised by Kuvira/Su/Opal relationships in the past. Baavira really looks like incest now. Disgusting. Everything is so twisted in this trilogy, i'm dissapointed.

      Yeah that was bad. overall this trilogy was awful, it's among the worst Avatar comic trilogies so far!

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    • Sergio N wrote:

      Wellfine wrote:
      Well, I was really unpleasantly surprised by Kuvira/Su/Opal relationships in the past. Baavira really looks like incest now. Disgusting. Everything is so twisted in this trilogy, i'm dissapointed.

      Yeah that was bad. overall this trilogy was awful, it's among the worst Avatar comic trilogies so far!

      I'm inclined to ignore this trilogy and pray to god Bryke ignore it too. Because it was just a mess of a horde of retcons. Looking at part 3 and they practically made everybody useless except Kuvira which makes no sense. Needing her for metal...bending when you have Toph, Su, her twin sons, Korra and fucking Lin.. 🤨 It just makes you go "uh huh really now." Anyways.

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    • Just read it.  Not impressed.  But I'm biased, because the hell with Ms. Metalbending One-Woman WWII.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      Just read it.  Not impressed.  But I'm biased, because the hell with Ms. Metalbending One-Woman WWII.

      When the trilogy was announced, I remember being all excited to see what would happen to Kuvira and the Earth Empire, mainly because I felt that the former could have been handled better in the show, and thought I'd see her "fixed", so to speak.

      But now, after seeing the entirety of what I've been given, I'm just about done with Kuvira myself. I'm at least glad that she has a completed character arc, meaning that there's way less need to bring her back for any more stories.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote:

      Deist Zealot wrote:
      Just read it.  Not impressed.  But I'm biased, because the hell with Ms. Metalbending One-Woman WWII.

      When the trilogy was announced, I remember being all excited to see what would happen to Kuvira and the Earth Empire, mainly because I felt that the former could have been handled better in the show, and thought I'd see her "fixed", so to speak.

      But now, after seeing the entirety of what I've been given, I'm just about done with Kuvira myself. I'm at least glad that she has a completed character arc, meaning that there's way less need to bring her back for any more stories.

      100% agree.

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    • It did feel pretty rushed in some places towards the end, but I'm inclined to rate it highly even if it could have used a Part Four.

      I was a lot more interested in Ruins than Turf Wars. Turf Wars was okay in presenting a short, concise conflict, but the Republic City triads is kind of... eesh. The democratisation of the Earth Kingdom has been interesting, and while they end it on a somewhat static note, it's at least optimistic that more gradual change will come in due time.

      I'm okay with how things turned out for Kuvira. This did "Draco in Leather Pants" her a bit, but it showed actual growth instead of presenting her as perfect from the get-go. The guilty plea is a result of what happens to her in the comic. And I don't think we'll be hearing from her any time soon.

      I think if anything the format is a bit tricky, as we're so used to these collections of three comics of 80-or-so pages. We've seen recently how much novels can shake up this franchise, might be an interesting path to take.

      Definitely disagree about it being the worst Avatar comic, that's for sure. The Search had an extremely cliché insane Azula and Ursa putting her son in danger by lying to Ozai about Zuko's paternity for no reason. Smoke & Shadow had the very gimmicky plot of Azula kidnapping children. North & South had a storyline we didn't really need to see where the bad guy is one man from the South who seems rightfully upset about the North taking control of their oil. Imbalance is the gold standard of how great an Avatar comic can be, Ruins is probably up on the higher end of comics for me, next to the Rift and Turf Wars.

      So, next: trilogy about Izumi and the modern Fire Nation, please?

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    • Oh my goodness yes! How have I never thought of that. That’s such a good comic concept! I’m not getting that Izumi idea out of my head now. :-(  ;-)

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    • Mike & Bryan did say that they planned more stuff for the Fire Nation and Izumi in Book 4, but scrapped it to focus on the story. Her daughter was supposed to appear and could have been a love interest for Mako. So I'm guessing they have a lot of material that they could repurpose to make into a new comic trilogy.

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    • Kassilon wrote: It did feel pretty rushed in some places towards the end, but I'm inclined to rate it highly even if it could have used a Part Four.

      I was a lot more interested in Ruins than Turf Wars. Turf Wars was okay in presenting a short, concise conflict, but the Republic City triads is kind of... eesh. The democratisation of the Earth Kingdom has been interesting, and while they end it on a somewhat static note, it's at least optimistic that more gradual change will come in due time.

      I'm okay with how things turned out for Kuvira. This did "Draco in Leather Pants" her a bit, but it showed actual growth instead of presenting her as perfect from the get-go. The guilty plea is a result of what happens to her in the comic. And I don't think we'll be hearing from her any time soon.

      I think if anything the format is a bit tricky, as we're so used to these collections of three comics of 80-or-so pages. We've seen recently how much novels can shake up this franchise, might be an interesting path to take.

      Definitely disagree about it being the worst Avatar comic, that's for sure. The Search had an extremely cliché insane Azula and Ursa putting her son in danger by lying to Ozai about Zuko's paternity for no reason. Smoke & Shadow had the very gimmicky plot of Azula kidnapping children. North & South had a storyline we didn't really need to see where the bad guy is one man from the South who seems rightfully upset about the North taking control of their oil. Imbalance is the gold standard of how great an Avatar comic can be, Ruins is probably up on the higher end of comics for me, next to the Rift and Turf Wars.

      So, next: trilogy about Izumi and the modern Fire Nation, please?

      Sorry, I have to disagree. This is as bad as North and South. It was way too rushed and had retcons here and there. Any interesting aspect it had in part 1 was lost in part 2. It literally stripped complexity it was going for and made the big bad someone "worse than Kuvira" to make her appear reasonable. There's also the fact every character's issue with her was bulldozed in an attempt to make her more sympathetic. That was pathetically done when you take into account that Asami, Mako, and Bolin all have sadder stories than her and never did anything as bad as she would ever. That also makes them getting brainwashed even dumber because it they took the characters with most leverage against her out for this story to even "stand." It fails on a lot of levels. The only thing it has over turf wars is the artist and art.

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    • Yeah I'm sorry, I fail to see how this comic trilogy wasn't an utter failure. It made incest canon and ex-fascist dictator military strategist practically go all "well i didnt know blowing up a city was horrible" like shut up

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    • I do think that the concept of Ruins of the Empire was good in that people still fought for the Earth Empire even after Kuvira was defeated, but I do agree that they just would trust Kuvira that much and that brainwashing just seems a bit overpowered. I don’t understand how knowing the dai li could brainwash enables them to be able to use mechanics to brainwash permanently

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    • Guan isn't just "worse than Kuvira," he's part of her legacy. Her journey in the comic is that she initially does think she does nothing wrong, and then in Gaoling sees the effects of her own legacy that she's uncomfortable with. Was it too rushed? Yeah, probably, but as far as the future of LoK is going with these three-part trilogies, they were trying to get to their end-point with Kuvira in one instalment.

      North & South was really something that didn't really need to be depicted at all and could've just been this decades-long conflict brewing between the Northern and Southern Water Tribes. The Earth Kingdom's democracy process was a question left hanging. I think the morality in North & South was much too simplified too: the North was actually planning to steal the South's oil, but we are supposed to think they're the good guys after all. Gilak now hates the Earth Kingdom even though he's been fighting in the Earth Kingdom for years with the rest of the Southern Water Tribe. In Ruins, people don't make excuses for Kuvira from the start, they're rightfully suspicious of her, but that changes throughout the comic.

      North & South also had an entire personality change for Katara. She forgot that she already felt close to her mother when waterbending (she already tells Haru she felt like that in Imprisoned) and apparently she didn't want anything to change even though she left the South Pole to find a teacher at the very beginning of the show. Nobody felt this weirdly written in Ruins.

      Was Ruins the perfect story to tell about the future of the Earth Kingdom and Kuvira? No. Was it the worst one? Also no, and I do rate it above how Gene Yang wrote most of the characters in the ATLA comics. I just wish Azula was also given the depth and space to change, because she does deserve it more than Kuvira.

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    • The other thing here is that, I think I'm sick and tired of the ethnic cleansers getting redemption arcs in this goddamn franchise. I never said this out loud, but I grew to dislike Iroh for that very reason. Making it all too hypocritical when it came to Azula, at least during the run of the show. For all it's worth I guess good for you ^^ for enjoying ROTE, I just relatively don't agree at all. I'm exhausted from the avatar franchise and it's fandom. I don't think I want to watch the atla live action show, because god knows how much discourse that will bring when people finally realize its flaws. Anyways they obviously could've told a better story because a lot of people who've I have been talking to on Tumblr do agree with me that Kuvira was essentially woobified and the comic was too contradicting in so many aspects. In fact, it probably would have worked better as a novel or if Kuvira wasn't focused like this at all. Considering the fact her character was mostly there for Korra's development in the show, not the other way around for one. For two, she didn't even have to be redeemed, she could've played a role similar to Zaheer in Book 4. They shouldn't have brainwashed the girl who had the most conflict being Asami, which by the way Bryke made her look dumb with the whole "I'm protecting Korra by watching you," blah blah. It may not seem that way to you, but when you put more focus on Kuvira, it surely feels that way. It feels like "oh these dumb dumbs are gonna get a punishment for putting her in a box because she really did change!!!" And then insert contrivances upon contrivances. I cant fully assess my every gripe with this comic because I would be here all day. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Ughhhhh, so that's about all I'm gonna say.

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    • I did say it could have been done better. Korra novels? Sign me up. I just don't think it's the worst thing ever as some people did.

      I'm aware that some people will have different opinions, and Kuvira was more of a woobie than I would have imagined her, but there was at least some progression from her initial "not guilty" plea going forward. And Kuvira isn't going to be released and having adventures with Team Avatar or anything: she's going to spend the rest of her days from maximum security to house arrest. That's a lot more reasonable than some magic "she's good now and is fully absolved of all her wrongdoings" ending.

      I don't think ATLA and LOK are perfect, and have always enjoyed their flaws. Perhaps I just have different standards because a lot of Avatar comics are more flawed than Ruins 3.

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    • I mean even Sokka and Katara were at least allowed to work with Zuko and get mad at him etc in book 3. None of this was displayed or allowed with 3/4s of the krew and Kuvira; when she literally threaten bolin with the re-educational camps and labeled him as a dissenter, killed Asami's dad and nearly her 💀, this was his own dumb doing but I guess fucking up Mako's arm unknowingly. She never even apologizes to any of them in accordance to what she did to them. Thats why we say they were used as plot devices for her "arc" or whatever the hell it was.

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    • Asami spent the entirety of Part One not willing to engage with Kuvira at all, put a tazer on her outfit, and refused to let her out on the platinum pod when Guan was attacking. She's allowed to have as many, if not more grievances toward Kuvira as Katara and Sokka had to Zuko in Book 3. Suyin, too, came up to Kuvira and told her she was awful for what she did to her family at the beginning of her trial. Is this presenting Kuvira as perfect? Nope, everyone is allowed to be rightfully ticked off at her.

      Asami says that it will take a long time to forgive Kuvira for killing her father, but just is grateful about her decision to volunteer for the brainwashing experiment and her actions in Guan's camp. Asami's spent so much of the comic mad at Kuvira that it's pretty disingenuous to say that people just automatically forgave her. She's hardly a Zuko when she's just being confined to a nicer space at the end, she's not acquitted or not even scheduled for release some day.

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Sergio N wrote:

      Wellfine wrote:
      Well, I was really unpleasantly surprised by Kuvira/Su/Opal relationships in the past. Baavira really looks like incest now. Disgusting. Everything is so twisted in this trilogy, i'm dissapointed.
      Yeah that was bad. overall this trilogy was awful, it's among the worst Avatar comic trilogies so far!
      I'm inclined to ignore this trilogy and pray to god Bryke ignore it too. Because it was just a mess of a horde of retcons. Looking at part 3 and they practically made everybody useless except Kuvira which makes no sense. Needing her for metal...bending when you have Toph, Su, her twin sons, Korra and fucking Lin.. 🤨 It just makes you go "uh huh really now." Anyways.

      Agreed. With all those metal benders on hand, Kuvira wasn't needed,

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    • ImperfectClock7 wrote:

      Kassilon wrote: It did feel pretty rushed in some places towards the end, but I'm inclined to rate it highly even if it could have used a Part Four.

      I was a lot more interested in Ruins than Turf Wars. Turf Wars was okay in presenting a short, concise conflict, but the Republic City triads is kind of... eesh. The democratisation of the Earth Kingdom has been interesting, and while they end it on a somewhat static note, it's at least optimistic that more gradual change will come in due time.

      I'm okay with how things turned out for Kuvira. This did "Draco in Leather Pants" her a bit, but it showed actual growth instead of presenting her as perfect from the get-go. The guilty plea is a result of what happens to her in the comic. And I don't think we'll be hearing from her any time soon.

      I think if anything the format is a bit tricky, as we're so used to these collections of three comics of 80-or-so pages. We've seen recently how much novels can shake up this franchise, might be an interesting path to take.

      Definitely disagree about it being the worst Avatar comic, that's for sure. The Search had an extremely cliché insane Azula and Ursa putting her son in danger by lying to Ozai about Zuko's paternity for no reason. Smoke & Shadow had the very gimmicky plot of Azula kidnapping children. North & South had a storyline we didn't really need to see where the bad guy is one man from the South who seems rightfully upset about the North taking control of their oil. Imbalance is the gold standard of how great an Avatar comic can be, Ruins is probably up on the higher end of comics for me, next to the Rift and Turf Wars.

      So, next: trilogy about Izumi and the modern Fire Nation, please?

      Sorry, I have to disagree. This is as bad as North and South. It was way too rushed and had retcons here and there. Any interesting aspect it had in part 1 was lost in part 2. It literally stripped complexity it was going for and made the big bad someone "worse than Kuvira" to make her appear reasonable. There's also the fact every character's issue with her was bulldozed in an attempt to make her more sympathetic. That was pathetically done when you take into account that Asami, Mako, and Bolin all have sadder stories than her and never did anything as bad as she would ever. That also makes them getting brainwashed even dumber because it they took the characters with most leverage against her out for this story to even "stand." It fails on a lot of levels. The only thing it has over turf wars is the artist and art.

      ROTE is worse than North and South.

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    • It would be great a new trilogy of graphic novels focused on the Nation Fire.

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    • Hong Shen wrote:
      It would be great a new trilogy of graphic novels focused on the Fire Nation.

      Agreed.

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    • Very well.

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    • This whole series has disappointed me. They could've taken it to a much more interesting place. Instead of brainwashing they could've just have the people of the earth kingdom supporting him because the Earth Empire has done them good. And have the Korra team struggle with having someone compete in the election that they don't support but who is very popular anyway. Also, I think Kuvira and Bataar Jr should've been executed at the end, they did ethnically (bendingly I guess) separate people and put none earth bending in "education camps", we can only guess what happends there. I guess there aren't, as far as we know,  laws against that in the avatar universe but I think the punishment is really mild and only because they helped the avatar.

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    • ShoeOffHead wrote:
      This whole series has disappointed me. They could've taken it to a much more interesting place. Instead of brainwashing they could've just have the people of the earth kingdom supporting him because the Earth Empire has done them good. And have the Korra team struggle with having someone compete in the election that they don't support but who is very popular anyway. Also, I think Kuvira and Bataar Jr should've been executed at the end, they did ethnically (bendingly I guess) separate people and put none earth bending in "education camps", we can only guess what happends there. I guess there aren't, as far as we know,  laws against that in the avatar universe but I think the punishment is really mild and only because they helped the avatar.

      I think I agree a lot with you regarding the plot that could have been different but above all interesting, at least you have a good point in expressing it.

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    • ShoeOffHead wrote:
      This whole series has disappointed me. They could've taken it to a much more interesting place. Instead of brainwashing they could've just have the people of the earth kingdom supporting him because the Earth Empire has done them good. And have the Korra team struggle with having someone compete in the election that they don't support but who is very popular anyway. Also, I think Kuvira and Bataar Jr should've been executed at the end, they did ethnically (bendingly I guess) separate people and put none earth empire citizens in "education camps", we can only guess what happends there. I guess there aren't, as far as we know,  laws against that in the avatar universe but I think the punishment is really mild and only because they helped the avatar.

      Yeah the brainwashing was stupid and unnecessary and I agree 100% for their crimes, Kuvira and Bataar Jr should've gotten death.

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    • It's ok what you think but I don't know if the creators should have thought well about the development of the plot.

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    • I finally read this today, and frankly...I'm not impressed.

      I'd heard some fairly negative comments about the series, but I wanted to read it so I borrowed it from a friend who had the book. But I went in with low expectations. And frankly, while it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, it was...decent at best. Not at all up to the standards, story-wise, that the franchise has set in the past. I felt the same way about Smoke & Shadow, but even that one was better than Ruins of the Empire IMO.

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    • DrachenRitter42 wrote:
      I finally read this today, and frankly...I'm not impressed.

      I'd heard some fairly negative comments about the series, but I wanted to read it so I borrowed it from a friend who had the book. But I went in with low expectations. And frankly, while it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, it was...decent at best. Not at all up to the standards, story-wise, that the franchise has set in the past. I felt the same way about Smoke & Shadow, but even that one was better than Ruins of the Empire IMO.

      Great effort is needed to deliver a good story in the comics.

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    • DrachenRitter42 wrote:
      I finally read this today, and frankly...I'm not impressed.

      I'd heard some fairly negative comments about the series, but I wanted to read it so I borrowed it from a friend who had the book. But I went in with low expectations. And frankly, while it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, it was...decent at best. Not at all up to the standards, story-wise, that the franchise has set in the past. I felt the same way about Smoke & Shadow, but even that one was better than Ruins of the Empire IMO.

      ROTE was terrible. Hopefully the next LoK comic trilogy is better!

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    • I also hope that the next The Legend of Korra comics trilogy will be better and more interesting!

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