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  • I hope I wouldn't regret making this threat. If you love Aang and Kitara it's fine, if you love Kitara and Zuko it's fine. I'm not here to tell yoy who to ship.

       The thing about Aang and Kitara, them as a couple break stereotypes. As a teenage couple, Aang, the boy, is younger and his girl was almost a mother figure to him. Some males do go after mother figures, but it's not usually at that age. Plus, it seems like Aang was seriously friend zoned for a lot of the series. If Aang and Kitara were real teens, people may doubt they would become a couple because the media conditions them to think that kind of pairing never happens. The play protrayed Aang as like a little brother to Kitara. Can you name any boy and girl couple in media where the boy was like a little brother to the girl ?
         Kitara and Zuko, if they were to become a couple, would be super stereotypical. Not to say that would be a bad thing, just a pairing people will expect if they are real teens. The emo bad boy with a troubled past and the mature younger big hearted girl. We see in media several versions of it. So it that pairing can seem more natural to veiwers. Zuko and Katara, if were a couple, would have been a very unique twitch on that stereotype. A couple other shows would try to and likely fail in copying. 
    

    Me personally, I like both as a couple.

    I seen on YouTube people saying the creaters intended Zuko and Kitara, is that true ? I don't put much stock in what people comments on YouTube about behind the scenes things.

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    • I don't why the middle part of my post is like that. It's awkward and hard to read.

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    • Aang & Katara is almost universally well received. The Zutara fandom may be committed, but it's a minority. The fact is that it's pretty much inevitable that the largest losing group of shippers will go into a frothing rage, the fact that it didn't happen HARDER with Zutara is kind of noteworthy.

      But nothing is really unusual about Aang & Katara getting together. It's pretty much your classic Dogged Nice Guy thing. Katara doesn't actually see Aang as a brother, the play just vocalized Aang's anxieties that this was the extent of their relationship.

      As for Zutara being the "original plan," probably not. No credible evidence for that has ever materialized. What gets passed around as "evidence" includes (1) an Avatar Extras quote that was probably a joke & (2) a story that alleges that Aaron Ehasz wanted to do it (& by Zutara Logic, he's a more authoritative writer because he's credited on a bunch of episodes & concepts, it's surely got NOTHING to do with the fact that they believe he backs their crack ship) but I've yet to see an actual confirmed record of him saying that.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Aang & Katara is almost universally well received. The Zutara fandom may be committed, but it's a minority. The fact is that it's pretty much inevitable that the largest losing group of shippers will go into a frothing rage, the fact that it didn't happen HARDER with Zutara is kind of noteworthy.

      But nothing is really unusual about Aang & Katara getting together. It's pretty much your classic Dogged Nice Guy thing. Katara doesn't actually see Aang as a brother, the play just vocalized Aang's anxieties that this was the extent of their relationship.

      As for Zutara being the "original plan," probably not. No credible evidence for that has ever materialized. What gets passed around as "evidence" includes (1) an Avatar Extras quote that was probably a joke & (2) a story that alleges that Aaron Ehasz wanted to do it (& by Zutara Logic, he's a more authoritative writer because he's credited on a bunch of episodes & concepts, it's surely got NOTHING to do with the fact that they believe he backs their crack ship) but I've yet to see an actual confirmed record of him saying that.

      Maybe I am just watching different stuff. I have NEVER seen a pairing like Aang and Katara to the point of thinking pairings like that doesn't but I constantly see pairings like Zuko and Katara.

      It's not near universal well received. On the Internet you find tons and tons and tons who prefer Zuko and Katara. If it was near universal, it would be rare to find.

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    • There are at least 5 million Avatar fans, going off of the viewership counts. If you found 50,000 people who still want Zutara, that would be 1% or less.

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    • "Possible reasons Aang and Kitara wasn't almost universally well received"

      Absolutely false. I knew Katara and Aang will end up together at the end, so Zutara fans can go sulk. lol

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    • I can think of three reasons:

      1. Aang's twelve years old.

      2. Aang's two years younger than Katara.

      3. Zuko's hot in the "physical attraction" sense.


      Disclaimer: The above list does not represent the opinions of Jaydude1992 and should not be construed as such. He personally wasn't bothered about who got with who. And nor should they be construed as serious logic.

      Edit: Corrected Aang's age.

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    • Jaydude1992 wrote: I can think of three reasons:

      1. Aang's ten years old.

      2. Aang's two years younger than Katara.

      3. Zuko's hot in the "physical attraction" sense.



      Disclaimer: The above list does not represent the opinions of Jaydude1992 and should not be construed as such. He personally wasn't bothered about who got with who. And nor should they be construed as serious logic.

      Aang's biologically 12 and chronologically 112.

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    • And the furor over Katara being (slightly) older strikes me as manufactured outrage.  The whole thing was unrealistically auspicious puppy love, true; but I think people were outright imagining any romantic tension between Katara and Zuko.  (True, there was a point in the show during which he was trying very hard to impress her; that was because she didn't trust him.)

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:
      And the furor over Katara being (slightly) older strikes me as manufactured outrage.  The whole thing was unrealistically auspicious puppy love, true; but I think people were outright imagining any romantic tension between Katara and Zuko.  (True, there was a point in the show during which he was trying very hard to impress her; that was because she didn't trust him.)

      Pretty much this. Let's not forget that Bryke did explicitly say several times that Kataang was "organically interwoven" within the entirety of the plot from the beginning, something they never declared about Zutara. I personally saw Kataang happening from the start (or at least I thought the show favored that particular pairing overall from the outset and all throughout).

      I never saw any romantic tension between Zuko and Katara at all. Zuko spends the majority of the show trying to capture Aang to win the favor of his bastard of a father before finally getting a reality check on that, and Katara spends the majority of the show coming to terms with her resentment/hatred of the Fire Nation for killing her mother (and Zuko by association though to be fair she definitely had cause to resent him that went beyond what happened to her mother) and more or less tearing her family apart, not to mention the rest of the Southern Water Tribe.

      They both eventually find common ground with one another and grow to respect, support, and care for one another (best shown in "The Southern Raiders" and later in "Sozin's Comet Part 3: Into The Inferno" respectfully), however, it never goes into romantic terrority with either one of them.

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    • I'm ok with "Kataang" but I would not have been shocked by "Zutara" because there was a little bit of potential between the two. for example in the crystal caves of ba sing se and in the southern raiders and the final agni kai. And Katara would go to hate the fire nation to love the fire lord even if it's a little bit cliche. and it would have created a pointless conflict between aang and zuko who are best friends.

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    • IAmNothing712 wrote: "Possible reasons Aang and Kitara wasn't almost universally well received"

      Absolutely false. I knew Katara and Aang will end up together at the end, so Zutara fans can go sulk. lol

      I'm reminded of why I never had a polar bear-dog in that fight, (I have and remained more pissed about the Lion-Turtle Deus Ex Machina,) and didn't ship anything in all of fiction (ok, slight interest if Ty Lee had been crushing on Zuko in "The Beach") until Korrasami: both Kataang and Zutara are dirt-common predictable with only the former being moreso.

      From the very first episode, there's all the telltale shots of Katara and Aang's faces focused on each other after he wakes up, (which kinda comes off like a mother with a newborn in a way,) him staring at her too much on Appa and so on. It feels inevitable and largely stays inevitable throughout the series even if it's skewed more to Aang crushing on Katara harder, which as someone on TVTropes put it, "like a kid falling in love with his babysitter."

      Zutara's slightly less so as there's that classic "bad boy/star-crossed lovers/opposites attract" thing especially as June kept teasing them as a couple, plus their respective VAs played a couple in "American Dragon Jake Long" (with the roles reversed) and that was before the show actively began trolling the audience over it (ex. "Schooltime Shipping"). I heard there was a split in the writers' room over it with Ehasz apparently being pro-Zutara (among other ideas), that's caused a split in the fandom with the Pro-Ehasz side basically comparing Bryke to George Lucas in needing other people/Ehasz to do all the emotional heavy-lifting (*). However, other than Zuko and Katara fighting together, (which is usually Battle Couple), I didn't expect them to hook up, so Zutara shippers basically asked to get suckered. Basically while Zuko and Katara hooking up would also fit the Central Theme of Balance, the cynical side of the coin is "A guy who once beat up a girl, tried to kidnap her friend and invaded her country made said girl fall in love with him by helping her murder the guy that murdered her mom." (Children's show, folks!)

      But in general, I just roll my eyes on this eternal grudge compared to something more thoughtful/culturally-relevant as the Makorra/Korrasami ship war.

      • As I said many times before (and will undoubtedly say again where applicable,) Bryke, specifically DiMartino, has a Doylism habit that they're short-sighted/not thorough enough on an internal/Watsonian level that they still focus more by structure like a storyboard than of the characterization/characters playing off of each other/world-building unless they're legit focused on it like "Korra Alone". This is how we ended up with bisonshit like the love triangle/Mako Fest in the first season or two because they put so much focus on Mako being the "Teen Drama Love Interest" that he has no character to play off of.
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    • both Kataang and Zutara are dirt-common predictable with only the former being moreso.

      You're not wrong.

      I heard there was a split in the writers' room over it with Ehasz apparently being pro-Zutara (among other ideas), that's caused a split in the fandom with the Pro-Ehasz side basically comparing Bryke to George Lucas in needing other people/Ehasz to do all the emotional heavy-lifting (*).

      I'm still not convinced it's even true. I've yet to see a credible source confirming that, & Ehasz seems to have become the Patron Saint of Fandumb. As if, even if it were true that Ehasz supported a certain bit of fanfic, that would somehow magically make it better.

      Basically while Zuko and Katara hooking up would also fit the Central Theme of Balance, the cynical side of the coin is "A guy who once beat up a girl, tried to kidnap her friend and invaded her country made said girl fall in love with him by helping her murder the guy that murdered her mom." (Children's show, folks!)

      In fairness, fuck that guy.

      But in general, I just roll my eyes on this eternal grudge compared to something more thoughtful/culturally-relevant as the Makorra/Korrasami ship war.

      Well, the alternative is listening to the walls screech, "Pandering! Bad writing! Garbage couple! No homophobe!" So there's that.

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    • Emphasis on "heard" as there's a link on the show's YMMV page on TVTropes that I either forgot or didn't read about, but even then, it's more grapevine that "this" would've happened (ex. lost Air Nomads) or "that" would've happened differently (ex. Toph not being the burnout she ended up being). I think those same people also held out hope for him that he'd be anti-Korrasami as well, but that's even less fuzzy.

      Essentially, Ehasz had the usual amount of ideas in the writer's room that comes with working on a show/movie with some being accepted, some not then went his own way afterwards, but people pissed at Bryke, (which is understandable in some ways,) keep trying to pull My Real Daddy with this convenient narrative that he would've delivered Zutara down from on high only for Evil Bryke to smite him and "force" Kataang to happen, robbing Zuko of his Water Tribe Princess.

      ...And now I'm thinking back to "The Great Divide".

      Also it reminds me how a particularly desperate/paranoid segment of Korrasami shippers claiming "Mean Ol' Homophobic Nickelodeon breathed down Bryke's neck the whole time" and were so against the pairing that they "censored" their hug in "Reunion", which is something even Bryan K., himself denied and is tired of the Nick-bashing, let alone how much Nick's been promoting the couple after it aired even when dealing with trolls on Facebook.

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    • Like I said, Patron Saint of Fandumb. Not sure I really get their sense of entitlement even if their mythology were true, so apparently getting hired to write for someone else's intellectual property means I should always have the final say?

      I'm not too inclined to give Nickelodeon all the cookies for promoting it after they saw which way the wind blew.

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    • O-kei Dou-kei
      O-kei Dou-kei removed this reply because:
      Meant to edit instead of quote.
      01:13, October 24, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Like I said, Patron Saint of Fandumb. Not sure I really get their sense of entitlement even if their mythology were true, so apparently getting hired to write for someone else's intellectual property means I should always have the final say?

      If the janitor who cleans the bathrooms at Nick said, "Hey, even I shipped Zutara and told Bryke so, but they told 'We just needed you to fix the toilets'" shippers would sing his praises and side with him.

      I'm not too inclined to give Nickelodeon all the cookies for promoting it after they saw which way the wind blew.

      Same. They were Pointy-Haired Bosses even before the show aired (the focus group because the main character's a girl,) and during it's run, so it would've been nice had they been more supportive of the show when it truly mattered.

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    • There were things that Bryke and co. were not allowed to get away with in regards to Korrasami (no kissing, no L-bombs, no outright mention of queerness, and so on; that's why they made a point of doing all of that in the comic).  The glitch with the hug, however, was an obvious animation error which was actually corrected in a later intro sequence.

      And as for Kataang not going over perfectly with the whole fanbase?  The fact of the matter is that regardless of what 'ship it is, there will always be someone who finds reasons to irrationally hate it.  (Hell, I've run across irrational P'heer hate.)  I couldn't name any one given thing that got people riled over Kataang in particular, but at least some of it was the aforementioned manufactured scandal over the age difference (be that over him being ninety-eight years older from a purely chronological standpoint, or over her being two years older from a biology and life experience standpoint).

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    • Deist Zealot wrote: The glitch with the hug, however, was an obvious animation error which was actually corrected in a later intro sequence.


      Yeah, I already mentioned that part in greater detail. Basically shippers like "Fandomentals" took that bisonshit and ran with it into this whole narrative that it was "Bryke vs. the Evil Suits"

      Deist Zealot wrote: And as for Kataang not going over perfectly with the whole fanbase?  The fact of the matter is that regardless of what 'ship it is, there will always be someone who finds reasons to irrationally hate it.  (Hell, I've run across irrational P'heer hate.)  I couldn't name any one given thing that got people riled over Kataang in particular, but at least some of it was the aforementioned manufactured scandal over the age difference (be that over him being ninety-eight years older from a purely chronological standpoint, or over her being two years older from a biology and life experience standpoint).

      Die For Our Ship, pure and simple.

      Some people root for the alternative simply out of spite and because Kataang was the obvious endgame, Zutara shippers ("Zutarians" sounds like either a sci-fi term, dietary choice and/or Scientology to me,) got pissed at the obvious and them still being pissed despite metric tons of similar ships being made canon simply makes me roll my eyes like a grudge from kindergarten over someone eating your snacks one time.

      The Makorra vs. Korrasami ship war is exponentially more important not only because one ship had been canon and was deconstructed as realistically dysfunctional, but because it reflects on the audiences views of relationships and obviously the complex issue of queerness and the depiction of it.

      This site alone has had Mako/Makorra apologists going full-on "These is no war in Ba Sing Se" romanticizing Mako as a better boyfriend than he canonically was, conveniently ignoring his actions when pointing out Korra's faults in the first 2 seasons and demonzing Asami for not doing "enough" for Korra with the goalposts constantly moved to change what exactly "enough" is despite Mako never even making a fraction of the same effort, even/especially in those same two seasons, let alone from Book 3 onwards where he not only isn't making an effort to make-up for his failures on a romantic level, but neither woman even has a reason to want to get back with him.

      I could go on an on about issues like entitlement, the reactive fragility from those shippers when Bryan K. wrote "hetero-lens", how much sites like "The Mary Sue" suck and how we're socially conditioned to see friendship and romance as two inherently separate paths that are never supposed to truly intersect and so on, but this post is getting long enough as it is.

      So TL;DR: Kataang/Zutara is childish, Makorra/Korrasami is inspirational think piece material.

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    • Not really sure what The Mary Sue has to do with anything, but that does lead to an interesting parallel. Zutarians are mad because the obvious happened, Makorrans are mad because it didn't happen.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Not really sure what The Mary Sue has to do with anything, but that does lead to an interesting parallel. Zutarians are mad because the obvious happened, Makorrans are mad because it didn't happen.

      The Mary Sue (and similar social justice sites) was initially pissed at the ending because they saw it as a cowardly cop-out that should've been done earlier in the series, ignoring not only what was going on externally/on the production side as well as ignoring the narrative, so they essentially wanted Korrasami to be what Makorra was in Book 1. Then months later when "Turtle-Duck Date Night" came out, they still gave a "whatevs" reaction, even to the fact of the proceeds going to LGBTQ suicide prevention.

      Essentially, a progressive pissing contest where if you're not as queer as "Steven Universe" then GTFO.

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