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  • As we've seen, the Earth Kingdom has been a corrupt and fearful country for a while now. Since the Kyoshi era, there has been multiple conspiracies and imprisonments in it's history. From brainwashing it's own citizens to kidnapping Airbenders and training them for their own army.

    So I ask this question, what could actually fix this government?

    Leave your answers below, thank you for reading.

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    • Revolution! The citizen's need to take arms and overthrow the empire. 

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    • Well... Kyoshi had to fix the Earth King during her time, but this Queen is too bossy.

      Maybe Su is right and she needs to be taken down. If taxes werent taken so she could live in luxery, the people could pay for better living conditions

      Hard to word this correctly as Su kind of is the representative of the Metal Clan

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    • The fact that people in the lower ring needs passports to enter the middle and upper rings of Ba Sing Se is beyond ridiculous.

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    • The Messenger John Tyler wrote:
      Revolution! The citizen's need to take arms and overthrow the empire. 

      If they do that, they should already have thought of an effective (emphsasis on effective) government ready to take it's place. I think they should have a constitutional monarchy.

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    • AntJenkins wrote:

      The Messenger John Tyler wrote:
      Revolution! The citizen's need to take arms and overthrow the empire. 

      If they do that, they should already have thought of an effective (emphsasis on effective) government ready to take it's place. I think they should have a constitutional monarchy.

      I agree in our history very rarely has a monarch just stepped down or were defeated easily. The best way to take down an absolute monarchy is to make a constitutional monarchy so everyone is happy. Royalists get to keep their royals and people who like democracy get that. It's also probably the most peaceful option

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    • Yeah constitutional monarchy! I said it in an other place mostly because the Earth nation-state would not have to change its name into the "Earth Republic" and then I suggested either the UK's or the UAE's form of constitutional monarchy. And I do find it ridiculous that citizens of the same city need official documents to travel within their own city. Does anyone know if the monarchy of Omashu is still around?

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    • I doubt it.

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    • Aside from the Constitutional Monarchy thing, I think the kingdom is just too big to realistically govern. The United Republic actually probably did her a favor.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Aside from the Constitutional Monarchy thing, I think the kingdom is just too big to realistically govern. The United Republic actually probably did her a favor.

      I think that's partly true. I don't think it's too big to govern. However, I think it's too big for the Queen to govern alone, which is what it seems like she wants to do. She wants everything in her control.

      The Fire Nation had governors that independently governed over the colonies. The only time they didn't govern themselves was when Azula was in town.

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    • There definitely need to be more checks and balances within the Earth Kingdom. Like others in this thread, I think a constitutional monarchy would be best, complete with some form of democratically elected parliament. I also think the Earth Kingdom needs to have its lands be split up into states/territories/provinces/what have you, each overseen by a governer. Right now it seems like most of the divisions are among villages or cities, which seems a bit difficult to properly govern from Ba Sing Se.

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    • I would guess that about 60-70% of the EK's resources go to Ba Sing Se.

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    • they should throw a coe and they form a council instead of a monarch 

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    • You mean stage a coup?

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    • Set up more city states like Omashu. Im actually very curious to see modern Omashu. But ruled by governors or 'kings' like Bumi

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    • I want to see pretty much all of the major Earth Kingdom settlements in Last Airbender.

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    • So far, what we have seen in book 3 is some very traditional things. I mean the towns that we visited were not modern by any stretch of the imagination

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    • i dont think people would be happy with that. If you look a our history france had the most power concetrated monarchy. REVOLUTION WILL HAPPEN(at your lowest point, thats when you change)

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    • Ozai should have burned it down when he had the chance

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    • I have always wondered why Omashu had a regional monarchy at all (not that I found it bad or anything), but then we didn't see any others with the exception of the national monarchy. I mean they could add other monarchies this season just like Omashu and make a kingdom of kingdoms combining how the Holy Roman Empire worked and how Canada or Australia work (because they are both federal kingdoms); maybe these regional monarchies are mad that they are paying too many taxes to Ba Sing Se and these leads to a federal state that better controls the Earth Kingdom for everyone's benefit.

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    • It saddens me to see the problems plaguing my nation. I agree with pretty much everyone that it needs more "Omashus" with different rulers in charge of different provinces if it isn't like that in the unseen parts of the EK already. Getting rid of the class system in Ba Sing Se wouldn't hurt either. There will always be poor and rich people, but to separate them like that only makes it worse. The lower ring has all the least valued citizens lumped up together in the worst conditions and encourages desperation that can lead to thngs like crime. People who feel like they're trapped will be likely to join a group like The Dai Li as a way out and they just add to the problems of Ba Sing Se in general. The EK needs a new ruler and way of operating. So far, Zaofu seems like a good model to follow

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    • Honestly, I think the only way to fix Ba Sing Se is to burn it down, and just redo everything. It's too corrupt for anything else.

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    • Burning it down may be a little harsh

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    • Luna Laufeyson wrote: Honestly, I think the only way to fix Ba Sing Se is to burn it down, and just redo everything. It's too corrupt for anything else.

      I sense too much League of Shadows on this fellow.

      I researched many modern monarchies and Malaysia has a federal elective constitutional monarchy. They have a federal monarch and a Prime Minister, with the component parts either having regional monarchies similar to Omashu or in the case of federal territories governors. However governors could never serve as a federal monarch only the regional monarchs could and they elect from among themselves into office. This could serve as a basis for what a federal Earth Kingdom could look-like I would like it to be more democratic than Malaysia's, maybe combining the semi-presidential system used in France by having both the Earth monarch and Prime/Chief Minister sharing equal power just to make it interesting, I just hate figurehead monarchies that's all (like the U.K./Commonwealth's)!

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Luna Laufeyson wrote: Honestly, I think the only way to fix Ba Sing Se is to burn it down, and just redo everything. It's too corrupt for anything else.

      I sense too much League of Shadows on this fellow.

      I researched many modern monarchies and Malaysia has a federal elective constitutional monarchy. They have a federal monarch and a Prime Minister, with the component parts either having regional monarchies like Omashu or in the case of federal territories governors. However governors could never serve as a federal monarch only the regional monarchs could and they elect among themselves into office. This could serve as a basis for what a federal Earth Kingdom could look-like I would like it to be more democratic than Malaysia's, maybe combining the semi-presidential system used in France by having both the Earth King and Prime/Chief Minister sharing equal power just to make it interesting, I just hate figurehead monarchies that's all (like the U.K./Commonwealth's)!

      Two heads of state will probably get a littler crazy. There will definently be a power struggle. The king (or queen) will think they should have more power because of inheritance but the prime minister will think it has more power because they were elected. Unless they have a really good constitution and senate (or some form of legislature) i don't think that would work. I think it would divide the people between monarch and prime minister. But thats just me

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    • Sokkafan99 wrote:

      Two heads of state will probably get a littler crazy. There will definently be a power struggle. The king (or queen) will think they should have more power because of inheritance but the prime minister will think it has more power because they were elected. Unless they have a really good constitution and senate (or some form of legislature) i don't think that would work. I think it would divide the people between monarch and prime minister. But thats just me

      Well I'm sure that when this system is set up the current Earth Queen will not be the leader of the Earth Kingdom and as far as I know France's Presidents and Prime Ministers do challenge each other however the President is one of the three branches of government all by itself unlike the Prime Minister which is part of the legislature so is not really two heads of state since in the semi-presidential system only one is head of state (president) while the other is head of government (prime minister), and this of course will take time to become stable in the new federal Earth Kingdom. The Prime Minister is responsible to the legislature while the President is responsible to the people, this is reflected in Belgium's monarch being called the King/Queen of the Belgians not of Belgium; so in the new federal monarchy of the Earth Kingdom the monarch would/could be called the King/Queen of the Earth Kingdom-Folk.

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    • Jey8000 wrote: This could serve as a basis for what a federal Earth Kingdom could look-like I would like it to be more democratic than Malaysia's, maybe combining the semi-presidential system used in France by having both the Earth King and Prime/Chief Minister sharing equal power just to make it interesting, I just hate figurehead monarchies that's all (like the U.K./Commonwealth's)!

      I agree with Sokkafan. I don't think that it would good. In the Earth Kingdom's case, there will be a battle for power. In all honesty, I think the way Long Feng had the government was the better than what they have now.

      I like the idea of the "figurehead monarchy" with the Prime Minister being the head of government, and the monarch being the head of state (basically, nothing more than just the "face" of the nation). That way, there will be no stepping on each other's toes and more gets done.

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    • Personally my favorite idea is to have regional governors or "kings" rule over certain regions while maybe the earth kings runs ba sing se

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    • Sokkafan99 wrote: Personally my favorite idea is to have regional governors or "kings" rule over certain regions while maybe the earth kings runs ba sing se

      Then he/she is not the Earth Monarch is just the Monarch of Ba Sing Se. Making the Earth Kingdom very similar to the Holy Roman Empire. There was monarchies everywhere within that country, like if you where to cross the street in some places you would be under someone else's jurisdiction just by doing that and there was a lot of in-fighting among the lesser monarchs almost all the time so no.

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    • AntJenkins wrote: I agree with Sokkafan. I don't think that it would good. In the Earth Kingdom's case, there will be a battle for power. In all honesty, I think the way Long Feng had the government was the better than what they have now.

      I like the idea of the "figurehead monarchy" with the Prime Minister being the head of government, and the monarch being the head of state (basically, nothing more than just the "face" of the nation). That way, there will be no stepping on each other's toes and more gets done.

      How about the system of Check and Balances? And I was wrong in saying that in a semi-presidential system a Prime Minister shares equal power with the President, since the Prime Minister is a representative of the legislature not above it.

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    • I like that idea. I like that or something similar to federation, having self-governing regions having some functions like maybe building infrastructure for their respective regions and, and the national government (the monarch, grand secretariat, etc.) having other functions like protecting the entire nation; being in charge of the nation's military; handling foreign affairs on behalf of the entire nation.

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    • AntJenkins wrote: I like that idea. I like that or something similar to federation, having self-governing regions having some functions like maybe building infrastructure for their respective regions and, and the national government (the monarch, grand secretariat, etc.) having other functions like protecting the entire nation; being in charge of the nation's military; handling foreign affairs on behalf of the entire nation.

      Yes that sounds good, is similar to what I'm talking about.

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    • The Messenger John Tyler wrote:
      Revolution! The citizen's need to take arms and overthrow the empire. 

      I think that after the revelution there will be three new nations. The kingdom of Ba-sing-se, the Confederacey of Earth, the Kingdom of Omashu

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    • The problem is when Korra faced the earth queen she should have used the avatar state, to show that she is the most powerful being on the planet and she can't just throw people in prison for no reason. This may have humbled the queen and maybe reconsider her psychopathic ways. It worked with kyoshi and her problems with the earth kingdom .

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    • To be fair, she has had her more brutal side tempered while in Republic City. When she first came to Republic City, she was all about strutting her Avatar stuff, but now she seems to be a bit more concerned with not blowing up like she did with Tarrlok.

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    • Thebridge14 wrote:
      The problem is when Korra faced the earth queen she should have used the avatar state, to show that she is the most powerful being on the planet and she can't just throw people in prison for no reason. This may have humbled the queen and maybe reconsider her psychopathic ways. It worked with kyoshi and her problems with the earth kingdom .

      I wouldn't necessarily say it woked with Kyoshi. Chin looked like he was still willing to fight, even after Kyoshi displayed her power by splitting her home from the mainland. Chin still stood stubbornly in the same place until he fell to his death. Kyoshi's power didn't humble Chin at all.

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    • AntJenkins wrote:

      Thebridge14 wrote:
      The problem is when Korra faced the earth queen she should have used the avatar state, to show that she is the most powerful being on the planet and she can't just throw people in prison for no reason. This may have humbled the queen and maybe reconsider her psychopathic ways. It worked with kyoshi and her problems with the earth kingdom .

      I wouldn't necessarily say it woked with Kyoshi. Chin looked like he was still willing to fight, even after Kyoshi displayed her power by splitting her home from the mainland. Chin still stood stubbornly in the same place until he fell to his death. Kyoshi's power didn't humble Chin at all.

      Chin wasn't the Earth King! The king at the time of Kyoshi was the 46th Earth King.

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    • Sayeth Zhao, "A situation like this must be handled with precision." Attacking the Earth Queen while in the Avatar State would have been an incredibly provocative gesture & could have gotten a lot of people hurt, like her friends, the airbenders, or innocent bystanders.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      AntJenkins wrote:


      Thebridge14 wrote:
      The problem is when Korra faced the earth queen she should have used the avatar state, to show that she is the most powerful being on the planet and she can't just throw people in prison for no reason. This may have humbled the queen and maybe reconsider her psychopathic ways. It worked with kyoshi and her problems with the earth kingdom .
      I wouldn't necessarily say it woked with Kyoshi. Chin looked like he was still willing to fight, even after Kyoshi displayed her power by splitting her home from the mainland. Chin still stood stubbornly in the same place until he fell to his death. Kyoshi's power didn't humble Chin at all.
      Chin wasn't the Earth King! The king at the time of Kyoshi was the 46th Earth King.

      Oooh! Gotcha. I was way off lol

      I know Chin wasn't the Earth King but that was the only person that came to mind. LOL

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    • The Earth Kingdom should be more like the U.S is today, divided into states that each have their own rulers with one larger ruler that governs the entire country. Ba Sing Se could be the equivalent of Washington D.C (if they drop the whole "rings" thing) and the Earth Queen (who would hopefully be replaced with someone who isnt a useless ruler) would be equivalent to the president. The place is too big for one person to rule so it would work if they had states 

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    • Thats why they would form the confederation of earth.

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    • The leaders currupt period it needs to start new.


      reborn in earth XD

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    • Well a more decentralized government will work specially how corrupt the Earth government from Ba Sing Se has been since ever!

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Sayeth Zhao, "A situation like this must be handled with precision." Attacking the Earth Queen while in the Avatar State would have been an incredibly provocative gesture & could have gotten a lot of people hurt, like her friends, the airbenders, or innocent bystanders.

      Yeah but the Avatar state can be used with precision like when Korra used it against the spirit vines or just had her use the quick flash avatar state glow and knock the queen out without harming anyone else in sight. Remember the avatar state if controlled is extremley effected in problem solving.Like when Kyoshi split her island from the mainland, she didnt techinley kill anybody including Chin who standing right infront of her while using it.

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    • I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

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    • I think the earth kingdome will split from Ba-sing-se as a republic, leveing the old ways of Ba-sing-se.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.

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    • Depose Hou-Ting, to begin with.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote: Depose Hou-Ting, to begin with.

      She wouldn't be the one under the new constitutional monarchy of the Earth Kingdom.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote: Depose Hou-Ting, to begin with.

      I'm not trying to say i like the Earth Queen but overthrowing a monarch to the point where they have no power or influence (ex. Being a figurehead) doesn't go over well. I'm sure there are those loyal to her and they need to be pleased as well. Just limit her power and for, some sort of parliament so the royalists can still have their queen and those who want democracy have their democracy

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.

      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.

      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

      I agree I do love monarchs and such but they are going to need a way to fix the earth kingdom

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    • Anyway. . . Does she have Children? No?

      Then its only a matter of waiting. . .

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    • Madmaxepic wrote:
      Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.
      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

      The F.N. will always have a monaarch.

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    • RaidenRadio wrote: Anyway. . . Does she have Children? No?

      Then its only a matter of waiting. . .

      Well she may have children we don't really know. We assume she does not

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    • Madmaxepic wrote: Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

      He may turn out to be a dictator

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Madmaxepic wrote:
      Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.
      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.
      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.
      The F.N. will always have a monaarch.


      One measly nation with a monarch isn't enough for me, the Earth Kingdom has to remain a Kingdom, IMO.

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    • Instead of succession maybe there should be an election? The Earth Queen inherited her father's throne and he wasn't fit for the job either. I know that voting is the way the United Republic thingy works and technically it wouldn't be a monarchy/Kingdom as such anymore but if the people chose their leader if they were awful at their job its the peoples fault. Or maybe it could be like the UK having a monarch and then a government to preside over the affairs so the monarch doesnt have too.

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    • @KaylaT you do know there's such thing as an elected monarchy, right?

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    • Jey8000 wrote: @KaylaT you do know there's such thing as an elected monarchy, right?

      Oh that is true! During turmoil after France they had an elected king! He would've stayed in power but there were too many revolutionaries. So in the Earth Kingdom it may actually go over :)

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    • KaylaT wrote:
      Instead of succession maybe there should be an election? The Earth Queen inherited her father's throne and he wasn't fit for the job either. I know that voting is the way the United Republic thingy works and technically it wouldn't be a monarchy/Kingdom as such anymore but if the people chose their leader if they were awful at their job its the peoples fault. Or maybe it could be like the UK having a monarch and then a government to preside over the affairs so the monarch doesnt have too.

      He wasnt a bad ruler the dai li just messed with him

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    • He got an invitation from himself to Lake Laogai.

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    • How bout have a king to run the customs and tradition of the earth kingdom and a prime minister for the political issues like England

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    • Sokkafan99 wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote: @KaylaT you do know there's such thing as an elected monarchy, right?

      Oh that is true! During turmoil after France they had an elected king! He would've stayed in power but there were too many revolutionaries. So in the Earth Kingdom it may actually go over :)

      Actually I was referring to how the Pope is elected yet he is the monarch of Vatican City, or how the federal monarch of Malaysia is chosen from among the monarchs of the Malaysian states that have them, etc. Elected monarchies were pretty common in medieval Europe they usually were the precursor of the hereditary kind because one monarch would become powerful enough to 'influence' the election of the next monarch and at first it was just costume to elect family members of that monarch (not necessarily the son but their brother or cousin) then it was just expected next the first born male became the norm.

      I have never heard of an eleceted monarchy during the French revolution! I think you are confusing it with the constitutional monarchical period that didn't last which was actually the original plan of the revolutionaries before The Terror happened.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      @KaylaT you do know there's such thing as an elected monarchy, right?

      Yes but I've only ever heard of the one in France so I didn't think it was very common

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Sokkafan99 wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote: @KaylaT you do know there's such thing as an elected monarchy, right?

      Oh that is true! During turmoil after France they had an elected king! He would've stayed in power but there were too many revolutionaries. So in the Earth Kingdom it may actually go over :)

      Actually I was referring to how the Pope is elected yet he is the monarch of Vatican City, or how the federal monarch of Malaysia is chosen from among the monarchs of the Malaysian states that have them, etc. Elected monarchies were pretty common in medieval Europe they usually were the precursor of the hereditary kind because one monarch would become powerful enough to 'influence' the election of the next monarch and at first it was just costume to elect family members of that monarch (not necessarily the son but their brother or cousin) then it was just expected next the first born male became the norm.

      I have never heard of an eleceted monarchy during the French revolution! I think you are confusing it with the constitutional monarchical period that didn't last which was actually the original plan of the revolutionaries before The Terror happened.

      The French Revolution, though I find it fascinating, isn't the section in history i know most about. I think I'm confusing it with when Louis Phillipe became king because the Chamber of deputies voted him to become king instead of the rightful king. I'm sorry for not really knowing my facts :)

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    • Sokkafan99 wrote:

      The French Revolution, though I find it fascinating, isn't the section in history i know most about. I think I'm confusing it with when Louis Phillipe became king because the Chamber of deputies voted him to become king instead of the rightful king. I'm sorry for not really knowing my facts :)

      Well that was the July Revolution that happened in 1830. Not to be confuse by the later June Rebellion which happened in 1832 and is the setting of "Les Misérables".

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    • Here, we all unanimously are agreeing on the fact that Hou-Ting is a very bad queen and whatnot. And you all want the people to revolt and get a "constitutional monarchy". But, do all the people hate her? Sure, air benders hate her but that's different. Mako & Bolin's grandma is a prime example. She isn't from a well off family. And she adores the queen. So, from there, I can hypothetically conclude that she does have some level of support from the lower sections of society. And I also think that most of the upper society would like her as well. 

      I ask you all a question. Why would people from lower sections of society support Hou-Ting? 

      All revolutions for drastic governmental changes were fully successful when the majority of the population revoluted as one. From what I see, if the people against Hou-Ting now revolt, when the change is accepted by only half the society, we'll end up in a situation like now in Syria, where both sides have major casualties & chaos.

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    • I think Mako and Bolin's Grandmother supporting her is just because she is a fan of the old ways. I'm most revolutions it's the elderly (though they don't have to be the only ones) who are against the revolt because they support their ways because they see them as the old and superior ways. Now I could be wrong but notice how their grandmother is pretty much the only person in their family that actually likes her. I bet majority of the population doesn't like her because well she is awful. Thats just what I think

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    • Madmaxepic wrote:
      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Madmaxepic wrote:
      Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: I want to see the Earth Queen overthrown, but not an Earth Republic, that would totally suck. I just want to see a new Earth monarch put on the throne.

      Constitutional Monarchy all the way then? But nothing like the UK.
      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.
      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.
      The F.N. will always have a monaarch.

      One measly nation with a monarch isn't enough for me, the Earth Kingdom has to remain a Kingdom, IMO.

      1. that is not a measley nation 

      2. the northern water tribe. 








      P.S. have you ever thought of the word measly.

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote:

      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.


      1. that is not a measley nation 

      2. the northern water tribe. 

      P.S. have you ever thought of the word measly.

      Well I think the Southern Water Tribe seems to be an example of an elected monarchy as the SWT's Chief is just as much a monarch as the NWT's Chief, Earth Monarch and Fire Lord/Lady, but it doesn't seem like it has even been hereditary. And besides the part that in real-life some type of democracy could be found in any number of historical periods, heck even pirates would choose who would be captain of the ship after they found the last one unsatisfactory.

      @ShortswitsoxZ I think @Madmaxepic is still mad about the Hundred Year War the Fire Nation waged against everyone.

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    • Nah, I'm just saying one republic is enough in a work of fantasy, a genre where there are rarely any stuffy old republics to begin with. Elections and voting are not interesting in fiction, kings and queens and absolutism are.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote: Nah, I'm just saying one republic is enough in a work of fantasy, a genre where there are rarely any stuffy old republics to begin with. Elections and voting are not interesting in fiction, kings and queens and absolutism are.

      Well I don't think a show with such heavy Steampuck elements could be considered fantasy.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: Nah, I'm just saying one republic is enough in a work of fantasy, a genre where there are rarely any stuffy old republics to begin with. Elections and voting are not interesting in fiction, kings and queens and absolutism are.

      Well I don't think a show with such heavy Steampuck elements could be considered fantasy.

      Why?  There's no maximum technology level allowed for the genre.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Madmaxepic wrote: Nah, I'm just saying one republic is enough in a work of fantasy, a genre where there are rarely any stuffy old republics to begin with. Elections and voting are not interesting in fiction, kings and queens and absolutism are.

      Well I don't think a show with such heavy Steampuck elements could be considered fantasy.


      Steampunk is pretty much the fantasy version of sci-fi tech.

      But even then, tech level does not preclude something from being fantasy, for example, Star Wars is fantasy and sci-fi.

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    • Low technology & feudalism aren't necessary for the genre, they're just cliches that a lot of people expect to see because of nostalgia.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote:

      Steampunk is pretty much the fantasy version of sci-fi tech.

      But even then, tech level does not preclude something from being fantasy, for example, Star Wars is fantasy and sci-fi.

      "Star Wars" is actually classified as an epic space opera not a fantasy, technically that also keeps it out of the sci-fi category. "Lord of the Rings" may have set the standard of modern fantasy, but "Harry Potter" is also fantasy yet it takes place more or less in a contemporary setting. The basic need of fantasy is that it not get too into the realm of science and logic which can be seen in the "Harry Potter" books and films where the wizards and witches question how muggles make technology work however no actual thought is put on the subject. However Sokka (and others) is/was all about scientific thought and the Bending World follows most actual physical laws, we can argue that bending is not magic because the Air, Water, Earth and Fire (the live action film made it much more clear that firebending need it the fire already in the battlefield) was there already the benders are not creating them out of nothing and technology is still created to satisfied the needs of the populace. So yeah I don't think "Avatar" is fantasy or at lease not the most outstanding thing about it.

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    • Does airbending exist in real life? No?

      Then Avatar is fantasy. There is no scientific explanation of how bending works, it's all about chi and fictional energies of the body and whatnot, that's fantasy.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      The basic need of fantasy is that it not get too into the realm of science and logic[...]

      According to precisely whom?

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    • You should read about Chinese history. It's been always a change between small kingdoms and big dynasties. It's not new at all. It doesn't matter if it's a monarchy or not. Local governors exist in both systems.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote:
      The basic need of fantasy is that it not get too into the realm of science and logic[...]

      According to precisely whom?

      Whoever definite it. I just read about that's all and I agree Fantasy can't go into scientific thought because it can't stand to reason which is the opposite of it.

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    • Reason is the opposite of science?

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    • Madmaxepic wrote: Does airbending exist in real life? No?

      Then Avatar is fantasy. There is no scientific explanation of how bending works, it's all about chi and fictional energies of the body and whatnot, that's fantasy.

      No is Fiction which covers all themes that are not "real-life" including Fantasy.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:
      Whoever definite it. I just read about that's all and I agree Fantasy can't go into scientific thought because it can't stand to reason which is the opposite of it.

      Again: who, exactly, defines it thusly?  And what makes them an authority?  Because the very existence of Shadowrun, Technomancer, and the entire urban fantasy subgenre kind of debunks that.

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    • Deist Zealot wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote:
      Whoever definite it. I just read about that's all and I agree Fantasy can't go into scientific thought because it can't stand to reason which is the opposite of it.

      Again: who, exactly, defines it thusly?  And what makes them an authority?  Because the very existence of Shadowrun, Technomancer, and the entire urban fantasy subgenre kind of debunks that.

      Well if it follows Arthur C. Clark's third law of prediction: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Then I can't argue with either for it been technology or magic so you got me there. And it wasn't one source it was several just by me searching online as to what is "Fantasy" as a gender of fiction.

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    • You know, when he coined that "law," it was a caution against bias, not a blanket "anything goes" statement. He also states in that essay, several times, that some things are just impossible.

      Context is rather important. I can't say whether you are using bad sources or simply misreading them, since you don't appear to know which sources you are using, but the primary characteristic of fantasy is that it invokes magic as an explanation, while the primary characteristic of sci-fi is that it invokes science.

      You may see a few problems here. What is something like several "Final Fantasy" titles, which include both wizards & advanced machines? What is something like "Fullmetal Alchemist," which centers around, depending on your point of view, either a very magic-inspired science or a very science-inspired magic? What about "The Twilight Zone," which is classed as science fiction, but very rarely indulges in pseudoscientific jargon to explain its scenarios--or indeed offers any explanation at all--which can include traditionally mythical things like a watch that can stop time or a man who can turn into a cat?

      Genres are very loosely defined, & can overlap. Fantasy & sci fi aren't really mutually exclusive. They share a lot of themes, & differ primarily in how they express those themes.

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    • I think earthbenders should be able to waterbend since earth is made mostly of water if you agree reply

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    • Iamthetoph889 wrote: I think earthbenders should be able to waterbend since earth is made mostly of water if you agree reply

      Earth contains water since most rocks are hydrated, but rocks are not made from water. Rocks contain metal like silicon, iron, etc. bonded to a non-metal like oxygen, carbon, etc.. Which is why I think that since bones are made out of calcium and calcium carbonate (limestone) being one of many types of minerals shown to be bended by an earthbender depending on the environment there in I think that they could control animals (that also includes us!) just like bloodbending.

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    • TThe earth kingdom will fix its self some how, or die trying.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Iamthetoph889 wrote: I think earthbenders should be able to waterbend since earth is made mostly of water if you agree reply

      Earth contains water since most rocks are hydrated, but rocks are not made from water. Rocks contain metal like silicon, iron, etc. bonded to a non-metal like oxygen, carbon, etc.. Which is why I think that since bones are made out of calcium and calcium carbonate (limestone) being one of many types of minerals shown to be bended by an earthbender depending on the environment there in I think that they could control animals (that also includes us!) just like bloodbending.

      Wow that has never even occured to me! That would reall take earth bending up a notch!! I hope they do this!!!

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:


      Madmaxepic wrote:

      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

      1. that is not a measley nation 

      2. the northern water tribe. 

      P.S. have you ever thought of the word measly.

      Well I think the Southern Water Tribe seems to be an example of an elected monarchy as the SWT's Chief is just as much a monarch as the NWT's Chief, Earth Monarch and Fire Lord/Lady, but it doesn't seem like it has even been hereditary.

      And besides the part that in real-life some type of democracy could be found in any number of historical periods, heck even pirates would choose who would be captain of the ship after they found the last one unsatisfactory.

      @ShortswitsoxZ I think @Madmaxepic is still mad about the Hundred Year War the Fire Nation waged against everyone.

      What do you mean it isn't heraditary?

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Jey8000 wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:


      Madmaxepic wrote:

      Nah, there should be no more democracy or republics in the world of Avatar. That's boring real life crap, this is high fantasy. Lord of the Rings would have sucked if Sauron was a democratically elected evil president fighting the democratically elected president of Rohan. Democracy is good in the real world, in works of fantasy it's terrible, unsatisfying, and boring.

      Heck, I already dislike the fact that the United Republic has a president, it was way cooler when it was ruled by an oligarchic council consisting of representatives of each nation. President Raiku is a stuffy, boring, jerkface.

      1. that is not a measley nation 

      2. the northern water tribe. 

      P.S. have you ever thought of the word measly.

      Well I think the Southern Water Tribe seems to be an example of an elected monarchy as the SWT's Chief is just as much a monarch as the NWT's Chief, Earth Monarch and Fire Lord/Lady, but it doesn't seem like it has even been hereditary.

      And besides the part that in real-life some type of democracy could be found in any number of historical periods, heck even pirates would choose who would be captain of the ship after they found the last one unsatisfactory.

      @ShortswitsoxZ I think @Madmaxepic is still mad about the Hundred Year War the Fire Nation waged against everyone.

      What do you mean it isn't heraditary?

      From both shows it seems that the SWT's Chief is elected to the position, just like in the real-life example of the Holy Roman Emperor which was an elected position yet for centuries (with like one exception at lease) the elected person was from the Habsburg Royal Family, which may have been the case in the STW that its Chiefs were of this one special family, however the current Chief of the South is Korra's father (he was elected at the end of season 2) and he is not related to Sokka nor his dad's family.

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    • Oh I get it.

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    • The Earth Kingdom will probably have to be scarily reborn. My thinking is that the show will go political, and something will happen to the leadership, most likely at the hands of the people. 

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    • "We the people..."

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    • If they go back to a monarchy, who do you think will take the throne as the new Sovereign of the Earth "Kingdom"?

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    • Creag. You can always trust Creag.

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    • I just saw the episode and there's no longer any fixing that can be done for the City of Ba Sing Se nor the Earth Kingdom as a whole. New independent and sovereign states is what we are probably going to see out of the Earth Kingdom and old states like Omashu are probably going to regain their independence and sovereignty. Similar to how the U.S.S.R. had some old states regain their power and new once being created when it collapse. This is probably world changing to many in this universe, however the SWT would be like "Independence? We did that two weeks ago!"

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    • They're probably gonna make a side comic with Dark Horse or something about the earth kingdom and its restoration and/or continued decline. (and no, restoration and decline are not mutually exclusive in this case)  If the fanbase shows enough support they'll do it.

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    • All the places outside Ba Sing Se will probably go "Yay, now we can ignore Ba Sing Se even more." One of the independent city states might get greedy and try to take over other territories, though. I wonder what kind of government they'll come up with in Ba Sing Se to replace the old monarchy. I'm hoping for something akin to direct democracy. Representative democracy typically leads to the government being controlled by corrupt/irresponsible politicians that don't even bother acting like they represent the people, in my honest opinion.

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    • The Messenger John Tyler wrote:
      Revolution! The citizen's need to take arms and overthrow the empire. 

      Looks like Zaheer has made their dreams come true.

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    • I think since it's mirroring China so much, that it will next become a Communist Country now that the Queen is dead.

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    • -Earth Anarchy?- as a name anyone?

      Or what about the Earth Nation......

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    • Supermensch wrote: All the places outside Ba Sing Se will probably go "Yay, now we can ignore Ba Sing Se even more." One of the independent city states might get greedy and try to take over other territories, though. I wonder what kind of government they'll come up with in Ba Sing Se to replace the old monarchy. I'm hoping for something akin to direct democracy. Representative democracy typically leads to the government being controlled by corrupt/irresponsible politicians that don't even bother acting like they represent the people, in my honest opinion.

      That may be, but I don't trust the people to represent the people, either. Let alone informed, unbiased analysis of the facts. I'd rather improving restrictions on elected officials rather than just resorting to solving all decisions via argument ad populum.

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    • Avatarfan46 wrote:
      -Earth Anarchy?- as a name anyone?

      Or what about the Earth Nation......

      Perhaps they'll eventually manage to reform it into something new. Like the Earth Republic or Earth Democracy. I highly doubt they would go back to a monarchy system, given how unpopular the Earth Queen was.

      Besides, as far as we can tell, the Earth Queen didn't leave any heirs, meaning that choosing a successor would be rather difficult.

      In all honesty, one could argue that Zaheer's actions merely accelerated what was already inevitably going to happen after the queen's death anyway.

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    • Avatarfan46 wrote:
      -Earth Anarchy?- as a name anyone?

      If the whole continent is in anarchy, it doesn't make much sense to have a name to describe it as a single political entity.

      Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Supermensch wrote: All the places outside Ba Sing Se will probably go "Yay, now we can ignore Ba Sing Se even more." One of the independent city states might get greedy and try to take over other territories, though. I wonder what kind of government they'll come up with in Ba Sing Se to replace the old monarchy. I'm hoping for something akin to direct democracy. Representative democracy typically leads to the government being controlled by corrupt/irresponsible politicians that don't even bother acting like they represent the people, in my honest opinion.

      That may be, but I don't trust the people to represent the people, either. Let alone informed, unbiased analysis of the facts. I'd rather improving restrictions on elected officials rather than just resorting to solving all decisions via argument ad populum.

      I wouldn't want a mob rule, but an organized government that holds public votes on important issues where every sane person of age is allowed to vote, with several independent agencies/organizations responsible for informing the public as well as reviewing and verifying any information released to the public by one another, and with a council on ethical decision making that oversees controversial proposals and has the power to veto legislation that passes without a supermajority sounds like it might work pretty well to me.

      In most representative democracies I know of, the people's only influence on the government is who they as individuals vote for, but the dominant parties tend to have complete control over which electable individuals there are to choose from. Moreover, elections are often little more than popularity contests and politicians are never held accountable for breaking election promises. A government that seeks to represent the people's opinions and desires should give them more control over the decision process than just letting them pick which politicians get to make all the decisions. Especially when the main criteria used for picking politicians are their likability and what party they belong to.

      The Wikia Editor wrote:
      In all honesty, one could argue that Zaheer's actions merely accelerated what was already inevitably going to happen after the queen's death anyway.

      If the queen had died naturally, the Dai Li would've probably taken over again (though probably with a more manipulative person replacing Gun as Grand Secretariat).

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    • Ba-sing-se will not be free forever.

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    • This kind of chaosbis exactly what Zaheer wanted. He killed the Earth Queen-- judge, jury and executioner.

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    • Moreover, elections are often little more than popularity contests and politicians are never held accountable for breaking election promises. A government that seeks to represent the people's opinions and desires should give them more control over the decision process than just letting them pick which politicians get to make all the decisions. Especially when the main criteria used for picking politicians are their likability and what party they belong to.

      I think you'd end up with, at best, the exact same thing in a representative democracy. Even if you try as hard as you can to inform people, it's really just easier to make bad decisions.

      How often does the excuse get thrown around that if X happens, it'll destabilize society in some unspeakable, unpredictable way? It's just an empty threat, but it works well, because it plays off of FEAR instead of LOGIC.

      Which leads to the fact that you will have people cashing in on these kinds of arguments, even if they have to form those organizations themselves.

      Also, if you have councils & so forth, aren't you talking about a representative democracy? I mean, they aren't strictly legislators, but that's still presumably some kind of elected position.

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    • The Earth Kingdom needs a new monarch. No more filthy republics in the Avatar Universe. Republic City already sucks enough.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote: The Earth Kingdom needs a new monarch. No more filthy republics in the Avatar Universe. Republic City already sucks enough.

      Then think of a way to reunite the Earth Kingdom! Because I don't fine any other alternative. And the setting they are portraying needs at lease one republic because is turn of the century (19th to the 20th) similar to how the United States and French Republic exited at this time so the United Republic must exist!

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    • I'm May think Geniocracy (Rule by Smart person) could replace by Likely Genius, Uncorrupted and Sane leader of South of Once kingdom; While the North will get Socialist-Like Republic Leader so make mirror Chinese Civil War an Post-Monarchic China conflict if Anarchy state is over at Earth Nation in Book 4...

      P.S. Monarchy Era in earth nation is close of ended since Queen may not have daughter to continue the Thone in canon?

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    • I'm guessing fragmentation is the most likely way, given what we know of the nation. The problem with that is that it is based more on ATLA EK than the current one. It does seem that much of the country is still somewhat independent of the capital for the most part so they will probably experience far less chaos because of the relative independence.

      Maybe a United Confederacy of Earth States? How does that sound?

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    • How about the peoples republic of earth

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    • My theory is that the whole series ends with all current nations to be replaced by new ones. And the nature itself seems to want it to happen, since I don't believe the Harmonic Convergence created the new airbenders to restore the Air Nomads. It could have been meant only to restore the equality between the elements. And the new nations should be separated by their customs only, no more by the elements.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Moreover, elections are often little more than popularity contests and politicians are never held accountable for breaking election promises. A government that seeks to represent the people's opinions and desires should give them more control over the decision process than just letting them pick which politicians get to make all the decisions. Especially when the main criteria used for picking politicians are their likability and what party they belong to.

      I think you'd end up with, at best, the exact same thing in a representative democracy. Even if you try as hard as you can to inform people, it's really just easier to make bad decisions.

      How often does the excuse get thrown around that if X happens, it'll destabilize society in some unspeakable, unpredictable way? It's just an empty threat, but it works well, because it plays off of FEAR instead of LOGIC.

      Which leads to the fact that you will have people cashing in on these kinds of arguments, even if they have to form those organizations themselves.

      Also, if you have councils & so forth, aren't you talking about a representative democracy? I mean, they aren't strictly legislators, but that's still presumably some kind of elected position.

      Actually, no. If the people both vote on proposals and elect the individuals that are supposed to supervise that process, how is the council ever going to be able to function as a counter-balance to pure populism? To enter into the council, intended mostly as a failsafe against minority-discriminative voting and fraudulent voting practices, one would be selected and approved for membership by passing scientific tests proving their well-intentionedness, ethical responsibility and resistance to manipulation (e.g. being bribed). And if a member of the council were ever to be found guilty of unethical conduct or failure to resist manipulation, it would mean they'd immediately lose their position. Even if corrupt individuals were to squirm their way into the council, they'd still need to act like they were responsible people.

      I can't say the system I envision would be completely foolproof, but it should be very difficult for it to become corrupted if it starts out mostly uncorrupted. There are 2 reasons why I think it'd be such a difficult system to corrupt:

      1. There are a great number of people and several organizations one would need to corrupt before one could excercise major control over the result of the votes. Meanwhile, there is no tolerance of corruption in any of the organizations and there are prying eyes everywhere waiting to call out corruption as soon as they spot it.
      2. The system would be set up in such a way that it encourages the population to make informed, responsible decisions. Most current democracies, on the other hand, encourage apathy and loyalty to a party.
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    • let's not get to political here.

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    • @Supermensch: Any political system or government created by people are going to have faults in them. That's just part of the fallibility of humans, but not a reason to give up trying to make a more perfect government.

      What would you define as corruption? Could something like an extremely entrenched and ineffective bureaucracy count? 

      Sometimes smaller groups can great influence a country. The early Nazi party essentially used the system against itself through vigorous campaigning and the country's own government and the currrent troubles against itself. You'd have to find some way to prevent both problems.

      It might also come down to basic themes of the country in question, EK in this case, to determine what sort of government that it becomes or what qualities that government possesses.

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote: let's not get to political here.

      That seems to be the general purpose of this thread.

      Supermensch, I think that's a very good idea, but I'm still skeptical/cynical of people.

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    • Maybe the problem was just with Ba Sing Se and the surrounding area (remember the biker gang was from a local town just outside of the capitol). I mean the desert area was pretty come, Zaofu more than likely is also come and any other area with similar attributes, like Omashu or Kyoshi Island, would probably only see a few riots if any that would eventually get resolve by local authorities (even if they no longer derive their authority from the crown). What if all Korra has to fix is Ba Sing Se and the idea of a federal constitutional monarchy can still be salvage? Unless in the next episode the URN gains a lot of refugees from the Earth Kingdom thanks to the violence that may or may not be happening (unfortunately as I was writing that I got a mental image of the events that are happening on the Middle East at this moment) all over the former Earth Kingdom.

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    • The U.R.N. is small, the F.N. is big.

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    • I'm not sure how big the Fire Nation is, all I know is that the United Republic covers most of the northwestern part of the former Earth Kingdom which is a pretty big area and apparently it has different climates which could say something about its size. However what does it matter which is bigger?!

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    • Yes it dose, room. There is a picture of it on a map And it is smaller then the F.N.

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    • Well, technically, converting a spherical world to a flat map results in some land masses having their sizes distorted.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote: Well, technically, converting a spherical world to a flat map results in some land masses having their sizes distorted.

      I think the creators said that they used a Mercator-like projection, however the Fire Nation is nearly all equatorial and if they are using a Mercator projection then it won't be as distorted, since that kind of projection makes things away from the equator look bigger as the landmasses get further away from it. So the difference as of the "real" size of the Fire Nation to the United Republic could not be said easily from those maps unless they make a nice globe! (Oooh I would buy that!)

      EDIT: well I found the map with the URN included and it looks like the sizes get distorted as the landmasses get away from a north-south (could it be the prime meridian of the Bending World?) line so the further east or west the bigger it looks.

      UR lands
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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote: Yes it dose, room. There is a picture of it on a map And it is smaller then the F.N.

      Room for what? I'm not sure what you're suggesting unless you mean room for refugees of the former Earth Kingdom. Which I'm sure would rather go to the United Republic than the Fire Nation.

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    • I am talking about refugees.

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote: I am talking about refugees.

      Then more than likely they'll go into the URN and not the Fire Nation even if it is bigger is just a bunch of islands of various sizes, I'm that they'll find room out side of Republic City since that is what most people think the United Republic is, the URN may have something similar to the U.S. Midwest which should have more that enough room for them.

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    • In the case of a created or fictional world, couldn't the opposite be true in the case of a map's errors? Something tells me the creators didn't create a 3d spherical world map then shift it to a flat one. There's also a case of maps being used as plot devices and a continuing shift to more detailed and accurate world maps.

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    • Kubernes wrote: In the case of a created or fictional world, couldn't the opposite be true in the case of a map's errors? Something tells me the creators didn't create a 3d spherical world map then shift it to a flat one. There's also a case of maps being used as plot devices and a continuing shift to more detailed and accurate world maps.

      Well they did do a spherical planet for the season two finally when showing the effects of Harmonic Convergence.

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    • Someone posted the image and the rather odd placement of everything somewhere. I'd have to go digging. But that image would have come after ATLA too.

      I did look into the artbooks for anything about maps and any sort of "offical" map that would be as accurate as possible. There was the inside cover image of a general map but I find it suspect. The Ba Sing Sei walls are very very large in it (maybe 1/10th the EK). It leads me to believe that the team places a generalized or flexible placement of locations rather than a very specific one. That prison with P'Li is in the NWT, but no specific location as it wouldn't really be needed (except for people who really really wanted to know for the sake of completeness).

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    • Kubernes wrote: Someone posted the image and the rather odd placement of everything somewhere. I'd have to go digging. But that image would have come after ATLA too.

      I did look into the artbooks for anything about maps and any sort of "offical" map that would be as accurate as possible. There was the inside cover image of a general map but I find it suspect. The Ba Sing Sei walls are very very large in it (maybe 1/10th the EK). It leads me to believe that the team places a generalized or flexible placement of locations rather than a very specific one. That prison with P'Li is in the NWT, but no specific location as it wouldn't really be needed (except for people who really really wanted to know for the sake of completeness).

      Since is a fictional world then whatever map they put is 'official'. However I don't think they have ever said the measurements of distances (kilometres nor miles not even in ancient Chinese measurements) making it more real as it were. Which such measurements someone could calculate the accurate size of the nations and the world as a whole!

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    • That depends on the point in the story and the map in question I suppose. Some maps are just there to denote a specific part of the story, such as the map that didn't have the meeting place for Aiwei and Zaheer. The lack of an offical map could just be the idea that the writers and creators don't want to tie themselves down just yet with specifics until they are ready.

      All we have for distance is a vague one set by Korra in book 2. She says that HC is just a few days away while in RC. They do get Varrik's new ship to get to the south pole's coast and use a plane and bison to get to the portal. All that In just a few days.

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    • What dose HC stand for?

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    • Harmonic Convergence.

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    • Planes are fast.

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    • Kubernes wrote: @Supermensch: Any political system or government created by people are going to have faults in them. That's just part of the fallibility of humans, but not a reason to give up trying to make a more perfect government.

      What would you define as corruption? Could something like an extremely entrenched and ineffective bureaucracy count? 

      Sometimes smaller groups can great influence a country. The early Nazi party essentially used the system against itself through vigorous campaigning and the country's own government and the currrent troubles against itself. You'd have to find some way to prevent both problems.

      It might also come down to basic themes of the country in question, EK in this case, to determine what sort of government that it becomes or what qualities that government possesses.

      I'd say a politician is corrupt when their decisions are guided by their own personal agenda or someone else's (by accepting bribes for example), as opposed to by a commitment to govern for the benefit of the people. An entrenched and ineffective bureaucracy would be a form of corruption, since these politicians are mainly concerned with staying in power as opposed to governing responsibly. An entrenched bureaucracy wouldn't be a problem in the case of the system I described, however, since the only government officials would be public servants. If they fail to do their job, i.e. to execute the democratic decisions made by the people, they get fired.

      Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Supermensch, I think that's a very good idea, but I'm still skeptical/cynical of people.

      Thanks. I guess if you added the requirement that politicians need to pass the same scientific tests as I talked about for the councilmembers earlier, it'd already be a vast improvement over the current system of representative democracy. Though with the very limited power of the overall population, there wouldn't be much stopping the scientists who are doing those tests from becoming corrupt or being manipulated by others.

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    • I doubt the Earth Kingdom will be called that much longer. If you ask me, we might very well see the birth of a brand new political system. The Queen is dead, so it's not exactly like somebody else could come up and say 'Oh, my family has the divine right to rule', otherwise they would have been on the throne in the first place.

      Though folks might be sad the Earth Queen is dead, I doubt they'll want to go back to a system of monarchy, for fear of another ruler like her (or worse) arising. The people will want to have a say in their own destiny, and in seeking a model by which to do that, I would not be shocked in the least if they took after the example of Republic City, and out of this tragedy arose "The Earth Republic".

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    • Shadowulf1 wrote: I doubt the Earth Kingdom will be called that much longer. If you ask me, we might very well see the birth of a brand new political system. The Queen is dead, so it's not exactly like somebody else could come up and say 'Oh, my family has the divine right to rule', otherwise they would have been on the throne in the first place.

      Though folks might be sad the Earth Queen is dead, I doubt they'll want to go back to a system of monarchy, for fear of another ruler like her (or worse) arising. The people will want to have a say in their own destiny, and in seeking a model by which to do that, I would not be shocked in the least if they took after the example of Republic City, and out of this tragedy arose "The Earth Republic".

      I'm with some in here that don't want any more republics in the Bending World. The United Republic of Nations is enough, I'm pretty sure Ba Sing Se is the most (or only) affected part of the former Earth Kingdom and I'm sure it has to do with the ever present segregation of its people with physical and bureaucratical barriers, seriously passports were needed to go between the rings?! That type of practice was similar to how South Africa kept the people segregated. No wonder the city when up inflames!

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    • What would replace part or all of the EK with? Does it stay one nation or multiple earth-style nations?

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Shadowulf1 wrote: I doubt the Earth Kingdom will be called that much longer. If you ask me, we might very well see the birth of a brand new political system. The Queen is dead, so it's not exactly like somebody else could come up and say 'Oh, my family has the divine right to rule', otherwise they would have been on the throne in the first place.

      Though folks might be sad the Earth Queen is dead, I doubt they'll want to go back to a system of monarchy, for fear of another ruler like her (or worse) arising. The people will want to have a say in their own destiny, and in seeking a model by which to do that, I would not be shocked in the least if they took after the example of Republic City, and out of this tragedy arose "The Earth Republic".

      I'm with some in here that don't want any more republics in the Bending World. The United Republic of Nations is enough, I'm pretty sure Ba Sing Se is the most affected (or only) part of the whole former Earth Kingdom and I'm sure it has to do with the ever present segregation of its people with physical and bureaucratical barriers, seriously passports were needed to go between the rings?! That type of practice was similar to how South Africa kept the people segregated. No wonder the city when up inflames!

      The United Socialist States of the Earth Nation.

      USSEN

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    • It never really was one nation; just the Ba Sing Se government claiming superior authority over the other governments. If Ba Sing Se gets a new government, it'll probably renew this claim, though it's very doubtful that anyone will pay it much respect.

      And since we're coming up with names: The Confederation of Earth Nations, Territories and Ethical Revolutionaries (CENTER).

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    • Seeing all that's happened if they want to have any chance of restoring any small amount of order the military officials who are still loyal to the monarchy would have to get the Dai Li on their side and impose martial law before the looters and anarchists burn the city to the ground. After that it would most likely be an internal struggle for new leadership with either a council or a dictatorship with the highest ranking or most accomplished officer taking the seat of power.

      If that's the case, I vote for the airship captain with the hook for a hand.

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    • Swampbender55 wrote:
      Seeing all that's happened if they want to have any chance of restoring any small amount of order the military officials who are still loyal to the monarchy would have to get the Dai Li on their side and impose martial law before the looters and anarchists burn the city to the ground. After that it would most likely be an internal struggle for new leadership with either a council or a dictatorship with the highest ranking or most accomplished officer taking the seat of power.

      If that's the case, I vote for the airship captain with the hook for a hand.

      I can see it now! The Earth Airship Captaindom!

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    • Supermensch wrote:
      It never really was one nation; just the Ba Sing Se government claiming superior authority over the other governments. If Ba Sing Se gets a new government, it'll probably renew this claim, though it's very doubtful that anyone will pay it much respect.

      And since we're coming up with names: The Confederation of Earth Nations, Territories and Ethical Revolutionaries (CENTER).

      I didn't come up with the name, United Socialist States of Russia (USSR) was what I was refering to since I doubt the Earth Kingdom would want to go back to it's old government and instead would probably go a very Communist-eqsue route.

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    • Swampbender55 wrote: Seeing all that's happened if they want to have any chance of restoring any small amount of order the military officials who are still loyal to the monarchy would have to get the Dai Li on their side and impose martial law before the looters and anarchists burn the city to the ground. After that it would most likely be an internal struggle for new leadership with either a council or a dictatorship with the highest ranking or most accomplished officer taking the seat of power.

      If that's the case, I vote for the airship captain with the hook for a hand.

      I'm not sure how much power he would wield over the military of the former Earth Kingdom. I'm sure if anyone could declare marshal law is a General from the Council of Five, and it may lead to a dictatorship. Communism in the Bending World would probably come from the philosophy of Amon or at lease something similar to it.

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    • Madmaxepic wrote:
      Swampbender55 wrote:
      Seeing all that's happened if they want to have any chance of restoring any small amount of order the military officials who are still loyal to the monarchy would have to get the Dai Li on their side and impose martial law before the looters and anarchists burn the city to the ground. After that it would most likely be an internal struggle for new leadership with either a council or a dictatorship with the highest ranking or most accomplished officer taking the seat of power.

      If that's the case, I vote for the airship captain with the hook for a hand.

      I can see it now! The Earth Airship Captindome 

      LOL XD

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Swampbender55 wrote: Seeing all that's happened if they want to have any chance of restoring any small amount of order the military officials who are still loyal to the monarchy would have to get the Dai Li on their side and impose martial law before the looters and anarchists burn the city to the ground. After that it would most likely be an internal struggle for new leadership with either a council or a dictatorship with the highest ranking or most accomplished officer taking the seat of power.

      If that's the case, I vote for the airship captain with the hook for a hand.

      I'm not sure how much power he would wield over the military of the former Earth Kingdom. I'm sure if anyone could declare marshal law is a General from the Council of Five, and it may lead to a dictatorship. Communism in the Bending World would probably come from the philosophy of Amon or at lease something similar to it.

      Or Tarrlok.  Remember the curfiew for all non-benders and punishing a whole group because of the actions of a few radicals?  Well, that's more Socialism than Communism, but they both equally suck so samedif.

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    • I always thought Tarrlok was aiming for autocracy.

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    • Kubernes wrote: I always thought Tarrlok was aiming for autocracy.

      Yeah, communism is more along the lines of what Amon was aiming for. No more of one group lauding it's wealth over the poorer masses but not the unstructured anarchy that Zaheer offered. While I stay away from politics communism and socialism aren't bad on paper the people who claim to fly those banners abuse it, like Tarrlok did proclaiming to be a champion and defender of the people.

      I also questioned why the other council members let him walk all over them during every meeting.

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    • I also questioned why the other council members let him walk all over them during every meeting.

      This is hugely annoying, in hindsight. The plot would make so much more sense if Tarrlok were President & the resolution of Book 1 was to dissolve the Presidency in favor of a 5-person Council. They did it backwards!

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    • They basically consolidated all of the power into one person who, it would seem has the final say on everything.

      Still it's going to be interesting to see how things turn out in the Earth Kingdom. I have my own theory on that but whatever they choose to do should be good.

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    • Well, they went from an oligarchy that decided things through democratic vote to a temporary monarchy that's democratically elected. The former was bound to fail because the amount of people you needed to persuade to win the vote was so ridiculously low and there was no authority (besides the Council itself perhaps) supervising the proceedings of the councilmembers. The latter system, in turn, is only successful in giving the position of dictator to the individual that manages to convince the public that his competitors are bigger lying shitbags than he is. Clearly both systems are deeply flawed.

      I wasn't particularly surprised by the decision to replace the Council with a president, though. The series is American after all. But the apparent lack of a congress or parliament basically makes the URN's "democracy" a big joke. Not that it's not understandable; many people don't even know that there's such a thing as the US general elections. All the media seems to care about is the presidential race.

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    • Supermensch
      Supermensch removed this reply because:
      Double post.
      07:06, September 7, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Daman45667 wrote:

      Or Tarrlok.  Remember the curfiew for all non-benders and punishing a whole group because of the actions of a few radicals?  Well, that's more Socialism than Communism, but they both equally suck so samedif.

      Nah! That is just pure discrimination which happened (and is happening) in many places for example in the United States and South Africa, etc. which for a while had discriminant laws codified. Also Socialism is more of a socioeconomic ideology about the state giving help to the less fortunate, by creating social programs that aid those that cannot help themselves (technically not about controlling the market forces), all in all is just to keep the poor at lease from starving to death and not about making the world "fair". While Communism is about creating a classless society where individuals would be given the resources needed for their own survival; meaning that if you're a single man/woman you would get only that with which you could survive no problem, yet a family would get everything necessary to keep a family surviving, nothing more nothing less (think everyone gets the generic brand of everything ever just rationed).

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    • Supermensch wrote:
      Well, they went from an oligarchy that decided things through democratic vote to a temporary monarchy that's democratically elected. The former was bound to fail because the amount of people you needed to persuade to win the vote was so ridiculously low and there was no authority (besides the Council itself perhaps) supervising the proceedings of the councilmembers. The latter system, in turn, is only successful in giving the position of dictator to the individual that manages to convince the public that his competitors are bigger lying shitbags than he is. Clearly both systems are deeply flawed.

      I wasn't particularly surprised by the decision to replace the Council with a president, though. The series is American after all. But the apparent lack of a congress or parliament basically makes the URN's "democracy" a big joke. Not that it's not understandable; many people don't even know that there's such a thing as the US general elections. All the media seems to care about is the presidential race.

      Was there also a democratically elected government in the area during the comics before RC?

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    • Kubernes wrote:

      Supermensch wrote:
      Well, they went from an oligarchy that decided things through democratic vote to a temporary monarchy that's democratically elected. The former was bound to fail because the amount of people you needed to persuade to win the vote was so ridiculously low and there was no authority (besides the Council itself perhaps) supervising the proceedings of the councilmembers. The latter system, in turn, is only successful in giving the position of dictator to the individual that manages to convince the public that his competitors are bigger lying shitbags than he is. Clearly both systems are deeply flawed.

      I wasn't particularly surprised by the decision to replace the Council with a president, though. The series is American after all. But the apparent lack of a congress or parliament basically makes the URN's "democracy" a big joke. Not that it's not understandable; many people don't even know that there's such a thing as the US general elections. All the media seems to care about is the presidential race.

      Was there also a democratically elected government in the area during the comics before RC?

      Hmm, not that I'm aware of. I guess you could count small independent tribes/communities that decided things by consensus, like the Foggy Swamp Tribe maybe, as direct democracies.

      Oh, and some of the EK towns were governed by mayors, who might've been democratically elected.

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    • I know what he's talking about. Early in The Search, they showed the forerunner of the Republic City Council, which was like 2 Earthbenders & 2 Firebenders who were appointed to run Yu Dao. I don't remember the details, though.

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    • The Rift, part 1 shows it. They don't really go into it because the issue about Yu Dao and the FN/EK coalition government because it is one page and three panels. But it was based on an election.

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    • Jey8000 wrote:

      Daman45667 wrote:

      Or Tarrlok.  Remember the curfiew for all non-benders and punishing a whole group because of the actions of a few radicals?  Well, that's more Socialism than Communism, but they both equally suck so samedif.

      Nah! That is just pure discrimination which happened (and is happening) in many places for example in the United States and South Africa, etc. which for a while had discriminant laws codified.

      Also Socialism is more of a socioeconomic ideology about the state giving help to the less fortunate, by creating social programs that aid those that cannot help themselves (technically not about controlling the market forces), all in all is just to keep the poor at lease from starving to death and not about making the world "fair". While Communism is about creating a classless society where individuals would be given the resources needed for their own survival; meaning that if you're a single man/woman you would get only that with which you could survive no problem, yet a family would get everything necessary to keep a family surviving, nothing more nothing less (think everyone gets the generic brand of everything ever just rationed).

      Well I'm not quite sure what to say to this, you're kind of way off the ball as far as what Socialism is, but you were close with your description of Communism.  Keep in mind that though Wikipedia isn't the absolute authority on anything, these two pages are popular enough and their subject matter is well known enough to give them a high degree of credibility; what these pages contain is the consensus of countless experts on history and political science, backed up by solid references to source material.

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    • It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

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    • I don't know what it needs, but it needs something new. Let's face it, Kuvira may be a dictator in the making, but she did make a valid point that the monarchy has its weaknesses; a heriditary crown means someone without experience (like Wu) could come into power and mess things up. Maybe the key is a more constiutional monarchy.

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    • KorraFanatic wrote:
      It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

      Democracy is not a perfect goverment either, people can also make mistakes like the goverment.

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    • I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.

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    • Not sure if the end result will be a system like what Kuvira is heading up. It just wouldn't make too much sense to replace one tyrant with another. I suspect whoever rules the EK by the finale will have be softer and most likely narratively.

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      KorraFanatic wrote:
      It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

      Democracy is not a perfect goverment either, people can also make mistakes like the goverment.

      Right, that's what I meant.

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    • Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.

      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira

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    • QueenCeline wrote:

      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.

      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira

      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.

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    • The Earth Kingdome should just split away from Ba Sing Se. They out number them 1,000 to 1.

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    • Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.
      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira

      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.

      Which, again, would just be another version of Kuvira

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    • QueenCeline wrote:

      Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.
      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira

      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.

      Which, again, would just be another version of Kuvira

      Yes, but a better one.

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    • Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:


      Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:



      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.
      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira
      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.
      Which, again, would just be another version of Kuvira
      Yes, but a better one.

      Keeping the people in line by fear and miltary oppression is not a good thing. I don't see how Wu being at the head would make it "better"

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    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      KorraFanatic wrote:
      It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

      Democracy is not a perfect goverment either, people can also make mistakes like the goverment.

      True, there is no perfect government. Tyrants can take advantage of any system, but at least in a democracy, they would have a choice to remove the offending ruler

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    • QueenCeline wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      KorraFanatic wrote:
      It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

      Democracy is not a perfect goverment either, people can also make mistakes like the goverment.

      True, there is no perfect government. Tyrants can take advantage of any system, but at least in a democracy, they would have a choice to remove the offending ruler

      V Not necessarily. If they become ingrained into the system enough, it would not be possible to remove the ruling elite through elections, as they would not even really make a difference. Like in America, where politicians are puppets and the elections are meaningless, not capable of removing the ruling elite.

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    • Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      KorraFanatic wrote:
      It's clear that the people of Earth Kingdom need more choices, that's all. The monarchy, represented by Prince Wu, is dead, and fascism under the regime of Kuvira isn't that appealing either. Once Kuvira is eliminated, a socialist or democractic system will most likely take place, hence estalishing balance which is what Book 4 is about. 

      Of course, neither approach guarantees that the nation will be free from conflict in the future.

      Democracy is not a perfect goverment either, people can also make mistakes like the goverment.
      True, there is no perfect government. Tyrants can take advantage of any system, but at least in a democracy, they would have a choice to remove the offending ruler
      V

      Not necessarily. If they become ingrained into the system enough, it would not be possible to remove the ruling elite through elections, as they would not even really make a difference. Like in America, where politicians are puppets and the elections are meaningless, not capable of removing the ruling elite.

      This is mostly the fault of the people, the elite is only allowed to rule because the public largely ignores them.  The problem is that political groups are of two basic types: radical and non-radical.  Radical groups are extremely effective in their goals for the amount of people involved, but they don't affect change often because there aren't enough people to.  Non-radical groups attract more followers but have trouble getting people involved, affecting change on the rare occasion that they can unite enough of their followers to a cause and get them to care enough to actually contribute.  Apathy is worse than voting for the wrong person (most of the time, Hitler only gained power because enough people were behind him in the beginning).

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    • Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:

      Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:


      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.
      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira
      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.
      Which, again, would just be another version of Kuvira
      Yes, but a better one.

      So you'd rather a Hitler than a Kuvira?

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    • Daman45667 wrote:
      Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:


      Galactic Emperor wrote:

      QueenCeline wrote:


      Galactic Emperor wrote:
      I think the solution is a more centralized and authoritarian state with a powerful monarchy. Regional leaders should be removed and replaced with governors appointed by Ba Sing Se, and the military should be greatly expanded to enforce the rule. Also local security forces, like Omashu guards, should be made part of a centralized police force. Autonomy should not be granted to provinces.
      It was an authoritarian monarch (Hou-Ting) who caused all of this strife in the first place. Besides, removing the local rulers is unrealistic; their people would likely not want to be ruled from Ba Sing Se. What you're suggestng is basically another version of Kuvira
      Huo Ting did not do it correctly. What also should have been done is a vast increase of military personnel and a centralization of the military hierarchy. Governors appointed by the monarch would be enforced by the military. Fear will keep the people in line.
      Which, again, would just be another version of Kuvira
      Yes, but a better one.
      So you'd rather a Hitler than a Kuvira?

      No, he is the Emporer, he would want to control it.

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    • I think a lot of people are confusing faccism with nazism, wich arent the same for several reasons. MUSSOLINI IS NOT THE SAME AS HITLER. And kuvira seems more fachist(i dont know how to say fachista in english), making state and population as one,and making them believe that there realization as people is the state and blah blah blah....

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    • Feels more like a basic autocracy than a narrow system of totalitarianism within a short time frame (Italian or German fasicism of the 30s and 40s).

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    • Nicole 182 wrote: I think a lot of people are confusing faccism with nazism, wich arent the same for several reasons. MUSSOLINI IS NOT THE SAME AS HITLER. And kuvira seems more fachist(i dont know how to say fachista in english), making state and population as one,and making them believe that there realization as people is the state and blah blah blah....

      Fascist.

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    • Nicole 182 wrote:
      I think a lot of people are confusing faccism with nazism, wich arent the same for several reasons. MUSSOLINI IS NOT THE SAME AS HITLER. And kuvira seems more fachist(i dont know how to say fachista in english), making state and population as one,and making them believe that there realization as people is the state and blah blah blah....

      I'm not using Hitler as an example of fascism, I'm simply placing them loosely on a scale from 1 to horrible, and it's not too much of a stretch for Kuvira to start wiping out pretty much everybody (she already threatened to wipe out the state of Yao, you might say she was referring to the bandits, but that ambiguity is there so that it can pass the kid proofing of Nick, if the state of Yao didn't submit to her, she would have wiped out what was left once she took full control)

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      Nicole 182 wrote: I think a lot of people are confusing faccism with nazism, wich arent the same for several reasons. MUSSOLINI IS NOT THE SAME AS HITLER. And kuvira seems more fachist(i dont know how to say fachista in english), making state and population as one,and making them believe that there realization as people is the state and blah blah blah....

      Fascist.

      No political descrimination.

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    • I think a good start would be to focus on improving the lives of its citizenry. In Ba Sing Se, the lower ring has further deteriorated into overpopulated slum and its roads remain unpaved and dirty. The city itself has been growing for thousands of years and appears to be the ultimate example of urban sprawl. It can't expand any further outward, so it must expand upward. To facilitate this the city's road ways must be updated as high-rises can not be built with narrow roads in between them. Therefore, first fully take down the wall that Ghazan damaged, and use this empty "ring" to build a ring road similar to the ones they have in Beijing. Then, build a ring road around the Royal Palace and the outermost section of the lower ring. Then, pave the roads of the outer ring, and connect and expand the road ways between all three rings. With this, high rise development can take place in the Lower Ring to accommodate the large population, and the excess space in the palace (which is large enough to be a city) between the two inner ring roads can be used for further development.

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote: I think a good start would be to focus on improving the lives of its citizenry. In Ba Sing Se, the lower ring has further deteriorated into overpopulated slum and its roads remain unpaved and dirty. The city itself has been growing for thousands of years and appears to be the ultimate example of urban sprawl. It can't expand any further outward, so it must expand upward. To facilitate this the city's road ways must be updated as high-rises can not be built with narrow roads in between them. Therefore, first fully take down the wall that Ghazan damaged, and use this empty "ring" to build a ring road similar to the ones they have in Beijing. Then, build a ring road around the Royal Palace and the outermost section of the lower ring. Then, pave the roads of the outer ring, and connect and expand the road ways between all three rings. With this, high rise development can take place in the Lower Ring to accommodate the large population, and the excess space in the palace (which is large enough to be a city) between the two inner ring roads can be used for further development.

      The palace space should not be touched, it should remain in the hands of the Earth King.

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    • FirelordRoku wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: I think a good start would be to focus on improving the lives of its citizenry. In Ba Sing Se, the lower ring has further deteriorated into overpopulated slum and its roads remain unpaved and dirty. The city itself has been growing for thousands of years and appears to be the ultimate example of urban sprawl. It can't expand any further outward, so it must expand upward. To facilitate this the city's road ways must be updated as high-rises can not be built with narrow roads in between them. Therefore, first fully take down the wall that Ghazan damaged, and use this empty "ring" to build a ring road similar to the ones they have in Beijing. Then, build a ring road around the Royal Palace and the outermost section of the lower ring. Then, pave the roads of the outer ring, and connect and expand the road ways between all three rings. With this, high rise development can take place in the Lower Ring to accommodate the large population, and the excess space in the palace (which is large enough to be a city) between the two inner ring roads can be used for further development.

      The palace space should not be touched, it should remain in the hands of the Earth King.

      Wu has declared that he intends to abolish the monarchy. If there is no Earth King in the future, what point would there be in keeping it as it is?

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    • The monarchy has been dissolved (thank God); turn the palace into a tourist destination, or something. Or convert it over to be the nation's parliament building.

      Also, keep the Earth Nation. Make it a federation composing the various states, with each state having the right amount of autonomy, all the while keeping them united under a single political entity.

      Regarding the Earth Empire, has it been confirmed to be an imperial monarchy, or simply an autocratic state calling itself an empire? While Hitler was not an emperor (the last German Emperor was Wilhelm II during WWI), Germany's official name during WWII was the "Greater German Empire" (Großdeutsches Reich), and it is generally considered to be a form of an empire.

      Also, Germany's official name during the Weimar Republic (1918-1933) was also the "German Empire", just as it had been during Hohenzollern monarchy. While I'd be hard-pressed to consider the Weimar Republic an "empire", it continued to call itself that until the Nazis took over. 

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    • CommanderZeta wrote: The monarchy has been dissolved (thank God); turn the palace into a tourist destination, or something. Or convert it over to be the nation's parliament building.

      Also, keep the Earth Nation. Make it a federation composing the various states, with each state having the right amount of autonomy, all the while keeping them united under a single political entity.

      Regarding the Earth Empire, has it been confirmed to be an imperial monarchy, or simply an autocratic state calling itself an empire? While Hitler was not an emperor (the last German Emperor was Wilhelm II during WWI), Germany's official name during WWII was the "Greater German Empire" (Großdeutsches Reich), and it is generally considered to be a form of an empire.

      Also, Germany's official name during the Weimar Republic (1918-1933) was also the "German Empire", just as it had been during Hohenzollern monarchy. While I'd be hard-pressed to consider the Weimar Republic an "empire", it continued to call itself that until the Nazis took over. 

      I get the feeling that I am the only monarchist around here . . . anyway, I would say that the Earth Kingdom should remain, but as a constitutional monarchy (like Russia after the 1905 revolution). Also a better translation for Reich is "realm", reich is not necessarily "empire".

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    • Gilgamesh777 wrote:

      FirelordRoku wrote:

      Gilgamesh777 wrote: I think a good start would be to focus on improving the lives of its citizenry. In Ba Sing Se, the lower ring has further deteriorated into overpopulated slum and its roads remain unpaved and dirty. The city itself has been growing for thousands of years and appears to be the ultimate example of urban sprawl. It can't expand any further outward, so it must expand upward. To facilitate this the city's road ways must be updated as high-rises can not be built with narrow roads in between them. Therefore, first fully take down the wall that Ghazan damaged, and use this empty "ring" to build a ring road similar to the ones they have in Beijing. Then, build a ring road around the Royal Palace and the outermost section of the lower ring. Then, pave the roads of the outer ring, and connect and expand the road ways between all three rings. With this, high rise development can take place in the Lower Ring to accommodate the large population, and the excess space in the palace (which is large enough to be a city) between the two inner ring roads can be used for further development.

      The palace space should not be touched, it should remain in the hands of the Earth King.

      Wu has declared that he intends to abolish the monarchy. If there is no Earth King in the future, what point would there be in keeping it as it is?

      Yeah, but he hadn't done it yet during the show, so he could (and should) change his mind.

      The fact that he gave up the throne made his character arc immensely dissatisfying. The Earth Kingdom should remain a kingdom.

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    • Alexander of Volzhsky wrote:

      CommanderZeta wrote: The monarchy has been dissolved (thank God); turn the palace into a tourist destination, or something. Or convert it over to be the nation's parliament building.

      Also, keep the Earth Nation. Make it a federation composing the various states, with each state having the right amount of autonomy, all the while keeping them united under a single political entity.

      Regarding the Earth Empire, has it been confirmed to be an imperial monarchy, or simply an autocratic state calling itself an empire? While Hitler was not an emperor (the last German Emperor was Wilhelm II during WWI), Germany's official name during WWII was the "Greater German Empire" (Großdeutsches Reich), and it is generally considered to be a form of an empire.

      Also, Germany's official name during the Weimar Republic (1918-1933) was also the "German Empire", just as it had been during Hohenzollern monarchy. While I'd be hard-pressed to consider the Weimar Republic an "empire", it continued to call itself that until the Nazis took over. 

      I get the feeling that I am the only monarchist around here . . . anyway, I would say that the Earth Kingdom should remain, but as a constitutional monarchy (like Russia after the 1905 revolution). Also a better translation for Reich is "realm", reich is not necessarily "empire".

      I'm also a monarchist.

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    • While reich directly translates into "realm", the most common use - in this sense - is "empire". Considering the name of the German Empire was the Deutsches Reich and the name of the Weimar Republic was the same thing, it's not that far of a stretch. Kaiserturm is a more... literal way of saying empire, true, but rarely any German state has done it; Austria did, but considering that Austria's name in German is Osterreich, I think the factor of avoiding redundancy played a part. 

      I have nothing against monarchies - in fact, my favorite part of history revolves around the great monarchies of Europe - I just think that if a monarchy is shitty, it needs to go. Case in point - the Bourbon monarchy of France after Louis XVI. It took about half a century for the French people to lose faith in the monarchy; I'm surprised the Earth Kingdom lasted two centuries. 

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    • CommanderZeta wrote: While reich directly translates into "realm", the most common use - in this sense - is "empire". Considering the name of the German Empire was the Deutsches Reich and the name of the Weimar Republic was the same thing, it's not that far of a stretch. Kaiserturm is a more... literal way of saying empire, true, but rarely any German state has done it; Austria did, but considering that Austria's name in German is Osterreich, I think the factor of avoiding redundancy played a part. 

      I have nothing against monarchies - in fact, my favorite part of history revolves around the great monarchies of Europe - I just think that if a monarchy is shitty, it needs to go. Case in point - the Bourbon monarchy of France after Louis XVI. It took about half a century for the French people to lose faith in the monarchy; I'm surprised the Earth Kingdom lasted two centuries. 

      When an absolute monarchy is bad, you make it a constitutional monarchy, not abolish it.

      That's how we preserve our history instead of taking a dump on it.

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    • I have something against monarchies: There is literally no rational reason to preserve them. Relationship to someone who previously held power is in no way an indication of quality leadership, & they promote a structure in which few people benefit at the expense of many. While you CAN limit the king's powers with a constitution, I want you to observe the full weight of the irony there: The suggestion to improve a monarchy is to limit the monarch's power. "Tradition" is mere sentimentality, which is a horrible logos to base a government on.

      Of course the historical period of feudalism is interesting, but what is interesting has nothing to do with what is beneficial. In fact, since conflict is inherently interesting to people, wars are often considered historically interesting, yet wars are periods of suffering.

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    • A constitutional monarchy won't automatically fix it either. Don't forget that Louis XVI was a constitutional monarch when he fled to the Austrian Netherlands (Belgium), in hopes that Marie's mother (Kaiserin Maria Theresa) would help him restore the Ancien Regime and the absolute monarchy of Louis XIV. By doing this, he committed treason against his own nation and paid the price - with his head, permanently ruining the image of the Bourbons in France. 

      If a constitutional monarchy does work, and is causing no problems, then I see no reason to dissolve it. In many European nations, their royal families are still popular and do their best to represent their nation both domestically and abroad.

      The Danes, for example, love how the royal family reacted to the German invasion during WWII; their king was a badass, riding a horse through the streets everyday - unattended, because he claimed "the whole of Denmark is my bodyguard" or something - providing moral support for his people and snubbing the Germans. That segment of the population is aging and some of that spirit is starting to diminish, but the point remains. 

      As some people here in Kentucky say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." XD

      Besides, for many of those nations, the tourism and popularity of those royal families often benefit the state more than dissolving the monarchy in favor of a republic. 

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    • If a constitutional monarchy does work, and is causing no problems, then I see no reason to dissolve it. In many European nations, their royal families are still popular and do their best to represent their nation both domestically and abroad.

      Yes, but that's more along the lines of indifference towards a monarchy that lacks teeth, not really a support for the system itself.

      Besides, for many of those nations, the tourism and popularity of those royal families often benefit the state more than dissolving the monarchy in favor of a republic.

      On the other hand, I end up being subjected to obnoxious gossip "news" about rich British people.

      The Danes, for example, love how the royal family reacted to the German invasion during WWII; their king was a badass, riding a horse through the streets everyday - unattended, because he claimed "the whole of Denmark is my bodyguard" or something - providing moral support for his people and snubbing the Germans. That segment of the population is aging and some of that spirit is starting to diminish, but the point remains.

      Damn it, why can't I get ubiquitous TV programs about THAT guy?

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    • CommanderZeta wrote: A constitutional monarchy won't automatically fix it either. Don't forget that Louis XVI was a constitutional monarch when he fled to the Austrian Netherlands (Belgium), in hopes that Marie's mother (Kaiserin Maria Theresa) would help him restore the Ancien Regime and the absolute monarchy of Louis XIV. By doing this, he committed treason against his own nation and paid the price - with his head, permanently ruining the image of the Bourbons in France. 

      If a constitutional monarchy does work, and is causing no problems, then I see no reason to dissolve it. In many European nations, their royal families are still popular and do their best to represent their nation both domestically and abroad.

      The Danes, for example, love how the royal family reacted to the German invasion during WWII; their king was a badass, riding a horse through the streets everyday - unattended, because he claimed "the whole of Denmark is my bodyguard" or something - providing moral support for his people and snubbing the Germans. That segment of the population is aging and some of that spirit is starting to diminish, but the point remains. 

      As some people here in Kentucky say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." XD

      Besides, for many of those nations, the tourism and popularity of those royal families often benefit the state more than dissolving the monarchy in favor of a republic. 

      I meant a constitutional monarchy like the UK has, with democracy beneath it. Wu would be an excellent figurehead for a democratic Earth Kingdom, as demonstrated by his ability to rally the people.

      This is part of why his arc was so dissatisfying, they set him up to be the constitutional monarch the Earth Kingdom needed, and then had him just reject his position because MURICA YEAH KINGS ARE BAD!

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    • This is part of why his arc was so dissatisfying, they set him up to be the constitutional monarch the Earth Kingdom needed, and then had him just reject his position because MURICA YEAH KINGS ARE BAD!

      That implies America is the only democracy in the world.

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    • I honestly hope monarchy is preserved. I mean, come on, there wasn't anyone better than Wu to place as successor? damn... he wants to end the legacy of the whole kingdom. Empire? well, that's ok. Earth Empire really sounded cool, but Earth Kingdom is awesome too. Wonder if the creators will address the issue one day.

      And I agree with FirelordRoku [are you a monarchist? that's great! XD]. If he wanted to rule, so be it. but he'd have the capacity for that, or at least the guts for ruling. Not stepping down like that. Kuei had way more guts, and I definetly miss Hou-Ting. damn Zaheer, may 10.000 years of misfortune be upon him.

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    • I think you're overestimating Wu's popularity in the Earth Nation. There's a reason why he was hiding out in the URN, even when the nation had largely been stabilized and before Kuvira's refusal to hand over power. 

      I thought "Earth Empire" sounded badass too, though I honestly expected a communist takeover by the masses would happen instead of a quasi-fascist autocracy. I mean, they could still call it the Earth Empire even if it were a republic, but they absolutely won't do it. 

      I still like "Earth Federation"; keeping the state alive and preserving the unique culture and history of the Kingdom is enough for me (like how most former monarchies in Europe manage the palaces and stuff). As for the monarchy itself? Get rid of it. They've all been weak, inept rulers or cruel tyrants - the Earth Nation has been on the decline for centuries, and it took a major regime change to reverse that. Another regime change - preferably a moderate democracy - would best serve to restore order and prosperity to the nation.

      Who knows; they might. 

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    • I think a writer could easily shift Wu's popularity factor by just restating the terrible things of Kuvira and saying that Wu impliments random acts that help the populace. One or two lines of expository dialogue. Not saying Wu is or should be a leader, just stating how a writer could craft a possible scenario.

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    • CommanderZeta wrote:
      I think you're overestimating Wu's popularity in the Earth Nation. There's a reason why he was hiding out in the URN, even when the nation had largely been stabilized and before Kuvira's refusal to hand over power. 

      I thought "Earth Empire" sounded badass too, though I honestly expected a communist takeover by the masses would happen instead of a quasi-fascist autocracy. I mean, they could still call it the Earth Empire even if it were a republic, but they absolutely won't do it. 

      I still like "Earth Federation"; keeping the state alive and preserving the unique culture and history of the Kingdom is enough for me (like how most former monarchies in Europe manage the palaces and stuff). As for the monarchy itself? Get rid of it. They've all been weak, inept rulers or cruel tyrants - the Earth Nation has been on the decline for centuries, and it took a major regime change to reverse that. Another regime change - preferably a moderate democracy - would best serve to restore order and prosperity to the nation.

      Who knows; they might. 

      Why get rid of the Monarchy? It was working before, and the only reason it started to fall was because of the current leadership. It could still work, they would just have to find someone who is competent to lead. Sure democracy is good and all, but it has been proven to let some things slip through the cracks of law. If they wanted to fix things, they would stop letting the URN get involved in their politics, because that's how Kuvira came to power, not to trash her and all.

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    • Except it wasn't working. The Earth Kingdom was a joke under both Kuei and Hou-Ting. I still believe it would be a joke under Wu, as well. 

      That of course segues into an important topic - the majority of the Earth Nation went along with Kuvira's policies, so I fear what will happen when the nation falls apart completely following its dissolution. So, it's possible a democracy won't make anything better - as it could certainly make everything worse - if that nation is not ready for it.

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    • Democracy is good in real life. In fiction, especially fantasy, it's boring and out of place.

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    • CommanderZeta wrote:
      Except it wasn't working. The Earth Kingdom was a joke under both Kuei and Hou-Ting. I still believe it would be a joke under Wu, as well. 

      That of course segues into an important topic - the majority of the Earth Nation went along with Kuvira's policies, so I fear what will happen when the nation falls apart completely following its dissolution. So, it's possible a democracy won't make anything better - as it could certainly make everything worse - if that nation is not ready for it.

      You do make a good point, as Kuei was being controlled and Hou-Ting was too paranoid trying to not be controlled. In fact, have we ever seen an actually competent Earth Kingdom ruler? I think Kuvira could have been a perfect ruler, had her character not been derailed like it was.

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    • FirelordRoku wrote:
      Democracy is good in real life. In fiction, especially fantasy, it's boring and out of place.

      Well in real life, people like to think that democracy is the best thing ever, however it is severly flawed. Look at the U.S., and how things are run here. Though it is supposed to be united, almost all states have their own laws, and jurisdictions. It kind of is like the EK would be had Wu disbanded the Monarchy.

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    • BankaiBilly wrote:

      FirelordRoku wrote:
      Democracy is good in real life. In fiction, especially fantasy, it's boring and out of place.

      Well in real life, people like to think that democracy is the best thing ever, however it is severly flawed. Look at the U.S., and how things are run here. Though it is supposed to be united, almost all states have their own laws, and jurisdictions. It kind of is like the EK would be had Wu disbanded the Monarchy.

      And yet we're a global superpower. Not the dying nation that people insist the Earth Kingdom will become.

      In most cases, jurisdictional differences are harmless at best. Sometimes, they're even beneficial, as we can change a law in 1 area of the country & see how it plays out before admitting it nationwide.

      For areas where we need the whole nation to be on the same page, we have mechanisms like constitutional amendments & supreme court decisions.

      Of course problems still arise, but I defer to "Democracy is the worst form of government ever, except for all of the other ones."

      I also don't agree that democracy is "boring & out of place" in fiction. Do we have any Harry Potter fans here? Boom, democracy.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:

      BankaiBilly wrote:

      FirelordRoku wrote:
      Democracy is good in real life. In fiction, especially fantasy, it's boring and out of place.
      Well in real life, people like to think that democracy is the best thing ever, however it is severly flawed. Look at the U.S., and how things are run here. Though it is supposed to be united, almost all states have their own laws, and jurisdictions. It kind of is like the EK would be had Wu disbanded the Monarchy.

      And yet we're a global superpower. Not the dying nation that people insist the Earth Kingdom will become.

      In most cases, jurisdictional differences are harmless at best. Sometimes, they're even beneficial, as we can change a law in 1 area of the country & see how it plays out before admitting it nationwide.

      For areas where we need the whole nation to be on the same page, we have mechanisms like constitutional amendments & supreme court decisions.

      Of course problems still arise, but I defer to "Democracy is the worst form of government ever, except for all of the other ones."

      I also don't agree that democracy is "boring & out of place" in fiction. Do we have any Harry Potter fans here? Boom, democracy.

      Well, while I won't say it is the worst form, or that it is bad, I will say that it's the most likely form of Government that can be exploited.

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    • Only if you consider governments which convey absolute power to an individual or group to be immune to exploitation by virtue of technicality.

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    • I still prefer the Earth Kingdom back when it really had influences from Ming/Qing dynasties, and influences from several other periods. Those were the days. After LOK, the whole fun in watching the show just for its looks, its historical influences, etc just faded. It became the average modern setting with additional bending powers. And the few things that kept it interesting were destroyed, disappeared, we didn't saw much of it or suffocated.

      When we finally get a chance of seeing some EK revenge and kicks some major butt, as an Empire, it fails because plot. Now the kingdom is going to be dissolved ? oh my... please. 

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    • BankaiBilly wrote:
      CommanderZeta wrote:
      I think you're overestimating Wu's popularity in the Earth Nation. There's a reason why he was hiding out in the URN, even when the nation had largely been stabilized and before Kuvira's refusal to hand over power. 

      I thought "Earth Empire" sounded badass too, though I honestly expected a communist takeover by the masses would happen instead of a quasi-fascist autocracy. I mean, they could still call it the Earth Empire even if it were a republic, but they absolutely won't do it. 

      I still like "Earth Federation"; keeping the state alive and preserving the unique culture and history of the Kingdom is enough for me (like how most former monarchies in Europe manage the palaces and stuff). As for the monarchy itself? Get rid of it. They've all been weak, inept rulers or cruel tyrants - the Earth Nation has been on the decline for centuries, and it took a major regime change to reverse that. Another regime change - preferably a moderate democracy - would best serve to restore order and prosperity to the nation.

      Who knows; they might. 

      Why get rid of the Monarchy? It was working before, and the only reason it started to fall was because of the current leadership. It could still work, they would just have to find someone who is competent to lead. Sure democracy is good and all, but it has been proven to let some things slip through the cracks of law. If they wanted to fix things, they would stop letting the URN get involved in their politics, because that's how Kuvira came to power, not to trash her and all.

      You just pointed out the reason why the monarchy was flawed; in a heriditiary monarchy, the system is only as good as the successor, and the successor is not always a competent ruler. That was the reason Kuvira was able to take over so easily; Wu, the royal successor, was incompetent and unpopular,  while she was popular and had proven leadership quality. The URN being involved in their affairs is irrevelant, as their problems seem to be internal. No matter what kind of system you have, there are going to be things slipping through the cracks. Plus, if Wu abdicated, I'm not sure there would have anyone else of the royal line to succeed him, so unless they made an elective monarchy, without Wu, they'd need to change things anyway 

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    • That fact that Raiko was actively pushing for Wu to take the throne - seemingly because he was already in Republic City at the time of the assassination and because he's apparently the last member of the royal family left alive - is a sign of the URN taking an active interest in the Earth Nation's politics.

      As we've seen, the Earth Nation can wipe Republic City off the map if it really wants to - Kuvira's army was huge (not only am I certain that the group we saw was only a portion of her army, but I think she could have taken the city without her superweapon), and if Hou-Ting had been able to get her shit together, I think she could have done it too. The Earth Nation seems to be a lot like China and Russia, in this regard; a lot of land, plenty of natural resources, and probably the world's largest population. I don't see how it could have gone from a war-torn failed state to a global military and technological superpower otherwise. 

      The URN's independence seemingly relies on the goodwill of the Earth Nation, the promise of military aid from the Fire Nation, and the guarantee by the Avatar - which is terrifying, honestly.

      If Wu is the last member of the Royal Family (which implies assassinations, illnesses, executions by mobs, or sheer bad luck), then yeah - there'd be no one to take the throne after him. He's also explicitly said that he doesn't want to be the King, and that he'd rather go the way of Republic City's experiment with democracy. Again, the only problem I have with his plan is the dissolution of the entire country, but I digress. 

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    • I am preaty sure the  transition from a monarch, to Anarchy, To Stalin, to democracy will go just SWIIMIINNGGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      White Lotus leader

      You have no Idea what the name of this character is.

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    • Well, considering how the Weimar Republic turned out - yeah, I'd say so. XD

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    • I bet you their going to be exiling their first El Presidente to Gilligan's Island  in a month and no one is going to stop it because Korra and Assami are partieing in the spirit world and their friend are scowering the globe looking for the mad Kiddnapper that took them.

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    • Emperor Qin wrote: I still prefer the Earth Kingdom back when it really had influences from Ming/Qing dynasties, and influences from several other periods. Those were the days. After LOK, the whole fun in watching the show just for its looks, its historical influences, etc just faded. It became the average modern setting with additional bending powers. And the few things that kept it interesting were destroyed, disappeared, we didn't saw much of it or suffocated.

      When we finally get a chance of seeing some EK revenge and kicks some major butt, as an Empire, it fails because plot. Now the kingdom is going to be dissolved ? oh my... please. 

      Exactly. Modern democracies are boring, and I have no desire to see them in works of fantasy. I already hated the United Republic of Nations, I don't want to see another one pop up in the world of Avatar.

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    • They could work well if they just avoided most of the common tropes associated with them. A show like Avatar really can't go into too much detail about any form of government, so it does limit the choices available to primarily mainstream, or simplified, ones.

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    • I'd say the URN was okay, until they dissolved the rather unique UN-style council (presumably with elected members or high-ranking diplomats with a strong element of studying the nation in question and a general understanding of how their countryfolk are faring) and put in a single, solitary president with no restrictions on his power at all. It's almost as bad as the Earth Queen; spirits, it's worse, because Raiko can tell them (if he were really drunk or speaking very plainly on the matter) that he's their fault. I wouldn't even mind that if they showed us how it happened, instead of just skipping six months ahead.

      As for Wu, I have a sneaking suspicion that Hou-Ting wasn't on the throne for very long before her...ahem..."taking down", and that a number of other, probably better candidates (including Wu's grandfather and possibly his parents) were...ahem..."taken down". Power politics can destroy the best of families, and if Hou-Ting could hypothetically eat Bosco without flinching, I wouldn't give much for the chances of her other family members. Especially those who could stand in her way; we could almost see it as Fire Lord Azula had Aang been...ahem oh forget it. Worse, what if it happened when Wu was still tiny? No parents, no responsible adult figures, the fortune of the world and a scholarship at Republic City University in his name...it's a miracle he turned out as well as he did.

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    • Emperor Qin wrote:
      I still prefer the Earth Kingdom back when it really had influences from Ming/Qing dynasties, and influences from several other periods. Those were the days. After LOK, the whole fun in watching the show just for its looks, its historical influences, etc just faded. It became the average modern setting with additional bending powers. And the few things that kept it interesting were destroyed, disappeared, we didn't saw much of it or suffocated.

      When we finally get a chance of seeing some EK revenge and kicks some major butt, as an Empire, it fails because plot. Now the kingdom is going to be dissolved ? oh my... please. 

      The modern EK in LOK has some influences. The Earth Queen has been compared to Dowager Empress CiXi, the anarchy to the revolution of 1911 and the warlord period, Kuvira has been compared to Chiang Kai-Shek. Plus, the EK-URN struggle mirrors the China vs. Taiwan deal

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    • I don't think it's the writers' fault that people find democracy "boring," it seems to me like people refuse to accept anything outside of a very narrow range of settings.

      Basically, if you're going to do a fantasy story (as in not sci-fi), your only options seem to be feudalism (European or Asian) or MAYBE steampunk. Which is what I find boring, because they're done all of the bloody time.

      There are, of course, notable exceptions, like Legend of Korra, & I'm told that Final Fantasy VII is "cyberpunk."

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    • Wow, I never heard it called cyberpunk before, but I'm more likely to believe that it comes from the expanded universe and particularly some elements in Dirge of Cerberus.

      Theocracies do make appearances in varous novels here and there, but they almost always follow the same tropes as the other ones. This doesn't include other common ones like aristocracy, but they do all seem to go down the same paths. The only fantasy setting that tries a few differences in governments that I can think of right now might be Paizo's Pathfinder setting. They tend to be more spins of existing ideas: an atheist theocracy, merchant oligarchies, French-like mobolism (mob rule essentially), a plutoacracy and a few others. Pathfinder is just an older version of D&D.

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    • I don't see how a government type can be inherently "boring", and I can say with absolute certainty that after playing hours of games like Europa Universalis IV, a lone republic like Venice or the Hansa (even if it's a merchant republic) is a breath of fresh air in a sea of monarchies and assorted theocracies - considering that the first real republics (as we know them) didn't start appearing on a large scale until the latter part of the 18th Century. If anything, monarchies in the fantasy genre have been done to death. So - in my opinion - seeing some form of democratic government where the people get to determine their on fate is unique, compared to the alternative. 

      It is unfortunate that the creaters of the show - and many people in the world as a whole - seemingly thing that democracy is the solution to all of our ills. Which is bullshit, because if a nation is not ready, stable, or... moderate enough for a democracy, it becomes a tool that can be used as easily as any other form of government. Like Iraq, for example, or the Weimar Republic.

      However, that quote about democracy being the "least suckiest" form of government is true - at least in my opinion, as it has shown to be the mst enduring. Countless autocratic regimes have risen and fallen across the world in the past two hundred years, often in the same country... and yet stable (and at the very least somewhat) democractic nations like the United States and the United Kingdom (Great Britain, pre-1801) have existed with very little - if any - drastic change in government. 

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    • Wow, I never heard it called cyberpunk before, but I'm more likely to believe that it comes from the expanded universe and particularly some elements in Dirge of Cerberus.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

      Reading this, it makes a lot of sense.

      Set in a futuristic society, well, while Final Fantasy VII does have some modern or even predmodern technology, it also has things like robots & advanced genetic engineering.

      Dystopic society & mega corporations, Shinra Inc., 'nough said.

      Depicts life of poor people on the streets, most of the time you spend in towns is in either slums or poor villages.

      Breakdown of the social order, we have the degradation of the company & the rebellion by AVALANCHE.

      Characters are marginalized, alienated loners who live on the edges of society, this is often missed because of the "larger than life" reputation the characters get by the end of the game & Advent Children, but the pre-battle speech with Rufus points this out beautifully:

      Rufus: Who are you people, anyway?

      Cloud: Ex-SOLDIER 1st Class.

      Barret: Head of AVALANCHE!

      Tifa: A bartender.

      Aerith: A flower girl from the slums.

      Red XIII: A research specimen.

      Rufus: Hm. What a bunch of rabble.

      ...And, of course, that trend is continued with Yuffie, a thief from the disenfranchised empire of Wutai, & Cid, a disenfranchised pilot. Plus, Cloud's true backstory makes it even more apparent, & Barret is deliberately leaving out the part where he's an ex-coal miner & what remains of his village now hates his guts. I guess Cait Sith/Reeve doesn't really fit, though. Not sure where I'd count Vincent, he was once an elite spy, but by the time you find him, he's lost so much that he's reduced to sleeping in a coffin of perpetual angst.

      The Compilation does sort of "up the ante" with things like extreme virtual reality, but for the most part, it's just continuing trends which were already there.

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    • But are not most FF characters disenfranchised or otherwise from extreme elements in society? Except maybe the first and third one besides the mmos?

      There are a number of elements of cyberpunk (the megacorporation, the "low life" portion) but it's certainly subdued in quite a bit of the game. Outside of Shinra, everything is pretty much just a rural environment, aside from some exceptions. Much of FF7 feels like its taking on the guise of the 90s environmentalist theme on a primarily modern setting that skirts both fantasy (you could also use agrian or pastoral with some of them) elements and sci-fi ones.

      Going on the derivatives alone, I'm surprised there isn't one past on recent history with 'punk' elements. FF7 even has a number of the biopunk themes going on with genetic manipulation (there's plenty of it there) so you could probably further define it.

      Looking at the wiki's lists, the title seems like its just throwing the word around without any care, which my illustrate that difficulty with the genre itself. We certainly attribute some works (Blade Runner) as the example of the style but stuff like Macross Plus?

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    • But are not most FF characters disenfranchised or otherwise from extreme elements in society? Except maybe the first and third one besides the mmos?

      Yes & no. I & III are just the "destined heroes." I'm not that familiar with IV, V, or IX, but my perception is that several of those characters are nobility. In VIII, the heroes are military cadets. In X, Tidus & Rikku sort of count, & for the rest of the party, their social standing varies as the game goes on. Not familiar with XI or XIII. I would say that, aside from VII, it mostly fits II, VI, XII, & Tactics (while most of your cast are nobles, they're sort of lower-end nobles that fall from grace).

      Of course, none of those games have cybernetic technology. II & Tactics are mostly medieval with a smidgeon or 2 of "lost technology," VI is steampunk, & XII runs on magiscience.

      There are a number of elements of cyberpunk (the megacorporation, the "low life" portion) but it's certainly subdued in quite a bit of the game. Outside of Shinra, everything is pretty much just a rural environment, aside from some exceptions. Much of FF7 feels like its taking on the guise of the 90s environmentalist theme on a primarily modern setting that skirts both fantasy (you could also use agrian or pastoral with some of them) elements and sci-fi ones.

      Sounds about right. I think the idea you're supposed to get is that the wealthiest & most powerful of the population are hogging most of the resources.

      Going on the derivatives alone, I'm surprised there isn't one past on recent history with 'punk' elements. FF7 even has a number of the biopunk themes going on with genetic manipulation (there's plenty of it there) so you could probably further define it.

      According to Wiki, that's a subgenre of cyberpunk. Also, I maintain that people need to stop slapping "punk" on words to create genre titles.

      Looking at the wiki's lists, the title seems like its just throwing the word around without any care, which my illustrate that difficulty with the genre itself. We certainly attribute some works (Blade Runner) as the example of the style but stuff like Macross Plus?

      I don't use these words very often because they're sort of vague. Even the distinction between sci fi & fantasy can be hard to pin down at times.

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    • Characters: The idea of the outcast or fringe does seem to play a role in a great deal of FF characters. You could also attribute that trope to a number of rpgs in general or even a great deal of fantasy or sci-fi stories.

      Shinra: Isn't that the same narrative with every evil corporation? Almost unlimited money, resources, and power until some ragtag group comes along and ruins it.

      Pinning down: That's the difficult part about some of these vastly open genres: some series are bound to contain a number of those elements but have other elements that can be attributed to other genres. 

      Going back to the EK, there's even multiple solutions in 'democracy'. Even if we take the URN, we get elements of said democracy with some elements of the old monarchy. We have an elected leader at the top with no apperent lower representative structure. Seems like you could almost pick and choose what you wanted from the various types of governments.

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    • I honestly don't know why people complain about the URN's "democracy," once Raiko is put in charge, it acts more like a Kingdom, except that Raiko was elected, but it's not really explained why he can't just change the laws so that his term limit is infinite.

      Related, I thought that the Council was more interesting, even if 3 of them were just there to be Tarrlok's Yes Men.

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    • ^ Personally, I think it's because Raiko is disliked by a lot of fans and people transfer that hate over to the URN. However, I agree that it would have been better if they kept the old style of government. Apparently, electing Raiko and dissolving the Council was a result of the Equalist movement or so I've heard, but would it have not been better to just create a new seat and have a non-bender of the URN fill it?

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    • That wouldn't satisfy non-benders because the representation would still be in favor of benders (4 benders to one non-bender).

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    • Who said they all had to be Benders? Sokka and that Acolyte certainly weren't. I think the idea was to have elected officials instead, but they could have done that easily and still kept the council.

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    • The URN needs a ruler like that Professor we saw on The Search. The one who looked like  孟子(Mencius) 

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    • Emperor Qin wrote:
      The URN needs a ruler like that Professor we saw on The Search. The one who looked like  孟子(Mencius) 

      ......why?

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    • Dragonboy6491 wrote:
      That wouldn't satisfy non-benders because the representation would still be in favor of benders (4 benders to one non-bender).

      The reps were technically there to represent the Four Nations, not the four bending arts. I think the people of the URN just felt unrepresented. A fifth seat to represent the URN specifically might have remedied that.  

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    • Why? he's way more tradition oriented, he actually looks like a true leader/philosopher/sage/junzi [scholar] and would definetly be an awesome ruler. I'll be happy to see someone like him ruling that place. Maybe he can turn things for better, shaping things up in a more properly, orderly way, one that goes according to ancestral tradition. 

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    • Being more traditional doesn't make someone a better ruler; in fact, it can be a hindrance if people have moved on from those traditions. Besides, he'd be dead by now. 

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      I honestly don't know why people complain about the URN's "democracy," once Raiko is put in charge, it acts more like a Kingdom, except that Raiko was elected, but it's not really explained why he can't just change the laws so that his term limit is infinite.

      Related, I thought that the Council was more interesting, even if 3 of them were just there to be Tarrlok's Yes Men.

      I think a counsel could probably be more effective and interesting. I'd rather it be more focused on bring in various peoples or ethnicities from around the kingdom's various states than say an election in Ba Sing Se. You could even get that one odd Swamp waterbender too.

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    • Avatar Vyakara wrote: Who said they all had to be Benders? Sokka and that Acolyte certainly weren't. I think the idea was to have elected officials instead, but they could have done that easily and still kept the council.

      It's not a matter that they "have to be benders," but that they ARE. The RESULT of the Council, even though it wasn't intended, was that it was predominantly benders--all benders by Korra's time.

      Ergo, adding another seat would not fix that disparity.

      While it doesn't make sense to dissolve the council, having the people directly elect the official does. Most of the populace were nonbenders, hence a nonbender was elected.

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    • Oh why couldn't they just have made all the seats held by elected people? In fact, it could have been down with out that much change: you can still place Raiko as a head counsel man or something and craft up four other background people to fill in the other seats.

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    • I don't know, do I look like Mike or Bryan?

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    • Well, we can't really tell from here. Any one of us could be Mike or Bryan.

      And I'll agree to that, captain: Raiko as a sixth councilman, even if he has the deciding vote on any issue, would work much better than Raiko completely on his own. It'd be much better for the city as well, I reckon. And electing them instead of having them appointed by other governments overseas would have been good as well, although maybe something akin to that could have been kept? A sort of International Council that advised all the nations instead of deciding for one of them? The problem in Korra's day was lack of knowledge of what the citizens were feeling, having viewpoints that (probably) reflected their own governments. But something like the council–something that could be used for nations to talk and work out disagreements–could have been a interesting touch. Seriously, why make your political system less sophisticated with one advancement–an important one, but one that would have made sense nonetheless?

      By the way, does anybody find it worrying that Raiko only had one opponent for the presidency in a city that prides itself on not seeing things as black and white?

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    • That's normal, though, isn't it? Having two final candidates going up for the presidency? Or am I only thinking on American terms?

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    • I'd say yes, I'm afraid. Even in China prior to 1949 there were five major political parties (Communist was one, yes, but by no means the most popular). Up in Canada we have four major ones–Liberal, Conservative, Progressive Conservative, and New Democratic (they got us health care)–and several minor ones. Modern-day Japan has Democrats, Liberal Democrats, and the Communist, Justice, and Innovation Parties. England has two, but they've also got the Liberal Democratic Party thanks to Scotland.

      In situations where democracy pops up, people usually have to deal with multiple viewpoints. I personally was at least expecting there to be a few very nationalist parties, maybe a dash of some Councillists; good grief, the Equalists movement could even have held a spot if they toned down their radicalism (Progressive-Equalists?). But...if Bryke really believes that people will default to one or t'other, without telling us what either of them are, then there's not much to say. Still, I'm fairly certain that the Air Nomad government was made clearer than that of the new URN, and that's saying something if it's a show that takes pride in showing more complex political situations.

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    • Didn't I claim to be Bryan from the future? I don't remember.

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    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Didn't I claim to be Bryan from the future? I don't remember.

      Careful, your arrogance is showing. XD

      Has it been explicitly stated that every member of the council during Book 1 was a bender? I mean, the biggest problem I saw with the existence of the council was that it served more-or-less as a forum for the other nations (Fire Nation, Earth Kingdom, Water Tribes, and Tenzin) to discuss world affairs and to collectively rule over a pseudo post-colonial mandate - which happened to be called the United Republic of Nations, which is pretentious since it wasn't even an independent country.

      That being said, if equal distribution of benders versus non-benders on the council is an issue, I think a body made up of three non-benders and two-benders would be a fair compromise - I'm certain that it has been implied that the majority of the people in both the URN (and the world as a whole) are non-benders. 

      I can't think of any particularly successful executive government bodies where power is shared evenly amongst several people, rather than one single individual. I know of the Consulate of the French Republic (of which Napoleon was a part of before he dissolved it in favor of the First French Empire), so I have no positive examples to provide. That being said, that doesn't mean it is a bad idea - at least in theory. I mean, the Fire Nation pre-monarchy acted in this principle, didn't it? I mean, it was a theocracy, but it was a theocracy run by the Fire Sages, with the Fire Lord as the head sage - which sounds like an oligarchy/council-like government. 

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    • Technically I'd say the Athenian democracy–the old one, that is–was fairly evenly balanced. At different times of the year, different members of the βουλη or council (yes, I have a Greek keyboard, don't ask why) would act as dominant member, switching groups about ten times a year and leaders much more frequently. Even the old Roman Senate wasn't so bad for a while. I'm sorry that I'm only listing Classical Western examples; I'll have to find some others for the next time I post.

      I would honestly have loved to see the Fire Nation at that time before the Fire Lord stepped in permanently. I'm actually trying to write that into a story myself.

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    • Oh yeah! Lol, I'm shit when it comes to ancient history. Also, wasn't the Roman Senate just the legislative body? I thought the Roman Republic's executive branch was run by like two "dictators"; elected officials that held absolute power for only like a year. I remember something like that. 

      The Fire Nation's transition from theocracy to monarchy reminds me of a mix between the Meiji Restoration of Imperial Japan and the conversion of the last Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order - Albert von Hohenzollern - to Protestantism and his secularization of the Duchy of Prussia. In both cases, theocratic governments were transformed into monarchies with varying degrees of power. 

      Lol, sounds like a cool story. 

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    • Has it been explicitly stated that every member of the council during Book 1 was a bender?

      Yes. Most likely in the "Welcome to Republic City" game, but I imagine their Wiki page would have a specific citation.

      I mean, the biggest problem I saw with the existence of the council was that it served more-or-less as a forum for the other nations (Fire Nation, Earth Kingdom, Water Tribes, and Tenzin) to discuss world affairs and to collectively rule over a pseudo post-colonial mandate - which happened to be called the United Republic of Nations, which is pretentious since it wasn't even an independent country.

      We don't actually know where the Council members come from. The way I interpreted it, the people of the United Republic weren't completely left out of the decision making process, but they had to choose from among certain candidates selected to represent the interests of the 4 Nations.

      Likewise, the United Republic itself seemed to be fairly autonomous, in addition to being a sort of "UN" figure. Perhaps it was transitioning from being a coalition of nations to being its own country.

      That being said, if equal distribution of benders versus non-benders on the council is an issue, I think a body made up of three non-benders and two-benders would be a fair compromise - I'm certain that it has been implied that the majority of the people in both the URN (and the world as a whole) are non-benders.

      Maybe, I mean, you could make arguments for or against any proposed plan. I do think that's better than just electing 1 jagoff, though.

      I can't think of any particularly successful executive government bodies where power is shared evenly amongst several people, rather than one single individual.

      You mean referring to the executive branch, specifically?

      Technically I'd say the Athenian democracy–the old one, that is–was fairly evenly balanced

      I'd probably agree that it was successful, but I'd hardly describe it as "balanced." What little I know about it suggests that it was terribly capricious. Actually, Wiki has a great summary of a lot of the problems I have with Athenian Democracy.

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    • CommanderZeta wrote:
      Oh yeah! Lol, I'm shit when it comes to ancient history. Also, wasn't the Roman Senate just the legislative body? I thought the Roman Republic's executive branch was run by like two "dictators"; elected officials that held absolute power for only like a year. I remember something like that. 

      The Fire Nation's transition from theocracy to monarchy reminds me of a mix between the Meiji Restoration of Imperial Japan and the conversion of the last Hochmeister of the Teutonic Order - Albert von Hohenzollern - to Protestantism and his secularization of the Duchy of Prussia. In both cases, theocratic governments were transformed into monarchies with varying degrees of power. 

      Lol, sounds like a cool story. 

      I'm sure that you could look at various differences in the Roman Senate during its lifetime, not to mention during the different types of "executive" branches (the kingdom era, republic era, and empire era). 

      Part of the problem with any government is that you are going to have pros and cons. The question would be to find the one with fewest cons(?) and adjust it for the most pros? The basic democracy seems to fit if you can minimize some of its problems, although I'd still place enough emphasis on the usage of a council.

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    • The transition from the Shang to the worthy Zhou dynasty also marked the end of shamanism amongst political decision. the era of a centralized bureaucracy was starting to show up. 

      About Japanese history: A better example would be transition from the "ancient" periods (the poorly documented ones, such as the Yamato, Kofun period) to the most recent eras, such as the Nara-Heian period, where Chinese cultural influence was greater, the role of the emperor was somewhat centralizing, and a more organized ruling body started to appear, thus ending the era of shamans and diviners in tribal decisions. It would also mark the transition from tribalism to an attempt to form an organized state, with standing army and bureaucracy, shaping up to Chinese standard. 

      The difference from all these examples is that the Fire Sages are still very influential on the FN politics, although it's the Fire Lord who rules the country now. Therefore it isn't a complete theocracy like it was before, but still have heavy influences from that period. They've become something like a second ruling body, to assist the Fire Lord's rule and possibly carry on rites and ceremonies (FN, just like Imperial China really looks a very, very cerimonial place and culture)

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    • Ah, the Mandate of Heaven...still some controversy about whose mandate it actually was in the writings of the period, but hey, that sort of works. It's just not very democratic, more meritocratic.

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    • Avatar Vyakara wrote:
      Ah, the Mandate of Heaven...still some controversy about whose mandate it actually was in the writings of the period, but hey, that sort of works. It's just not very democratic, more meritocratic.

      We're talking about the Mandate of Heaven that was tarnished by the Taiping Rebellion and was crushed by Meiji Japan, right?

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    • Eh, ish. Funny enough, the opposite seems to have happened in Japan; it can be said that the emperors lasted so long because so often they really didn't have any kind of power over the populace.

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    • Lol, that certainly played a part; being of "divine" lineage and not making serious enemies probably kept them safe for so long. 

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    • Can someone help me with something?

      I've been trying to disable email notifications for this page, I've unchecked and disabled every single email feature on wiki, but I still get an email every time someone replies here? How do I make it stop?

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    • Can you not "unfollow" this page at the top? That's what I do when I'm done with a topic. 

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    • Yeah, I already did unfollow it, it didn't work

      Before I unfollowed the topic, I was getting two emails for every one reply. Now it's just one, but I still don't want them anymore.

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    • Damn. I really don't know what to do. 

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    • Emperor Qin wrote:

      The difference from all these examples is that the Fire Sages are still very influential on the FN politics, although it's the Fire Lord who rules the country now. Therefore it isn't a complete theocracy like it was before, but still have heavy influences from that period. They've become something like a second ruling body, to assist the Fire Lord's rule and possibly carry on rites and ceremonies (FN, just like Imperial China really looks a very, very cerimonial place and culture)

      They were? Are you talking about the ones in Roku's temple? Their influence seemed to have been waning after Roku's death and the war's long duration. They were also arrested by Zhao? 

      If anything, there seemed to be a period during ATLA and the war with Shoguns (the earth kingdom generals) ruling over their respective areas. They were not controlling the capital directly, as that was more the Dai Li's area, but the other 90%+ish of the country would have been theirs.

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    • Avatar Vyakara wrote:
      I'd say yes, I'm afraid. Even in China prior to 1949 there were five major political parties (Communist was one, yes, but by no means the most popular). Up in Canada we have four major ones–Liberal, Conservative, Progressive Conservative, and New Democratic (they got us health care)–and several minor ones. Modern-day Japan has Democrats, Liberal Democrats, and the Communist, Justice, and Innovation Parties. England has two, but they've also got the Liberal Democratic Party thanks to Scotland.

      In situations where democracy pops up, people usually have to deal with multiple viewpoints. I personally was at least expecting there to be a few very nationalist parties, maybe a dash of some Councillists; good grief, the Equalists movement could even have held a spot if they toned down their radicalism (Progressive-Equalists?). But...if Bryke really believes that people will default to one or t'other, without telling us what either of them are, then there's not much to say. Still, I'm fairly certain that the Air Nomad government was made clearer than that of the new URN, and that's saying something if it's a show that takes pride in showing more complex political situations.

      As a fellow Canadian I would like to say, the Progressive Conservatives arent that big and popular... The main powerhouses are Liberals and Conservatives followed by New Democratic as seen in the 2015 election.

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    • First of all, I'd say that the number 1 priority should be making a railroad network across the earth kingdom. I mean some villages are just so remote that the military doesn't even bother trying to get there in time to stop a bandit attack. Trade is also hazardous and the queen couldn't even collect taxes from one of her provinces because bandits were stealing it. Also, the queen's a terrible ruler and she seems more interested in spending tax money on upgrading the palace than ruling her kingdom so I suggest she delegates responsibility to some kind of appointed central government that would make decisions in her stead because she's too busy enjoying the luxuries of being queen.

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    • It wouldn't be democratic but it would be a step up from having her rule. It just doesn't get much worse than having the earth queen in charge. She's not popular motivated or competent but I doubt she would accept handing power over to an elected government.

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    • Babyfriend1 wrote: It wouldn't be democratic but it would be a step up from having her rule. It just doesn't get much worse than having the earth queen in charge. She's not popular motivated or competent but I doubt she would accept handing power over to an elected government.

      How far are you into Korra? Just to know.

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    • The entire TV series but not the comics after that

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    • Babyfriend1 wrote: The entire TV series but not the comics after that

      Alright, then you know that the Earth Monarchy has been abolished. So your suggestion would apply only when it was in existence. I'm still hopefully for a federal democratic Earth Kingdom, because it was somewhat there already by looking a lot like the Holy Roman Empire.

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    • The only thing is that most of the earth kingdom is autonomous but that's pretty much it. They're not really democratic at all. I mean, people don't like the earth queen but at the time democracy was less than a year old. Plus, if you're talking about getting everyone to agree to this it would never happen. King Wu was only able to do it because all the local rulers had just had their power taken from them and all he had to do to keep them happy or out of the way was not be like kuvira or do whatever he wants with them since they have no power to oppose him.

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    • For the URN it's a different story. It was simply a matter of the other council members agreeing with tenzin to make it democratic because they realized he was right all along.

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    • Babyfriend1 wrote: For the URN it's a different story. It was simply a matter of the other council members agreeing with tenzin to make it democratic because they realized he was right all along.

      Ever since I saw the "Legend of Korra" I have felt that the URN must have had a legislature of some kind way before getting a democratically elected leader, because it makes no sense if all of a sudden they have one out of no where because it's easier to modify an exiting concept (elections for members to that legislature) than creating it all at once from scratch basically. This could serve a template for the former Earth Kingdom to use in creating their own system, but oh well.

      This was just one of the part of the world building in Korra that I felt were lacking and even some of the comics apparently lack (I haven't read any, just read about them on here). The United Republic of Nations has the word republic in it, yet the only for of government ever depicted was the United Republic Council and then the URN president. The UR Council which was basically like the Swiss Federal Council and the URN President is well a president! But, both of there are head(s) of state and the council wasn't a legislative body it was executive, just like how the Swiss do it which is a form of government I never expected to be depicted on screen by an animated series from the USA!

      Anyways, the former Earth Kingdom could always form a confederacy or supranational organization like the European Union because the newly formed "states" well probably need each other, but would rather keep their newly found independence; some will be monarchies, Omachu for example, while others will be tribal councils like the Swap Tribe, and yet others might turn into republics themselves like the URN.

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    • It does seem like the council does everything though. I mean we've seen them perform judicial executive and legislative functions so they probably did have to make up the idea from scratch. Maybe after the Earth Kingdom broke apart without kuvira they might have formed something like the EU but it really didn't seem to be going in that direction during the series. The idea was that after the earth queen died it was even more chaotic than when the earth queen was alive and the independent states didn't seem to be attempting to make a unified front against kuvira's aggression although they definitely opposed it.

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    • Also, like I said before, trade is kind of hazardous with the earth kingdom's bandit problem. Trained airbenders couldn't even defend a flying sky bison that was carrying badly needing food to a village. Imagine what would happen if you were an ordinary merchant without a sky bison, traveling on foot or on an animal that can't fly. My point is that inter-regional interactions between earth kingdom provinces are limited. I would understand if for example, ba sing se relied on imported food from another earth kingdom province that they might want to become more unified with their trade partner so that they can help them out against bandit attacks that might be a threat to their supply line but it seems like all the earth kingdom provinces are all self-sufficient.

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