FANDOM


  • We know that in an underground "Lake Laogai", many women in Ba Sing Se were hynotized by the Dai Li to be "happy" guides with the name Joo Dee to important people in the Upper Ring. We know that when Team Avatar was trying to prove to the Earth King that Long Feng was a liar, Toph discovered Lake Laogai was gone. However, the original Joo Dee that Team Avatar met was still hynotically happy and became the Supreme Bureaucratic Administrator after the Fire Nation's coup.

    Do you think after the war ended that all those women, including the first one Team Avatar met, were eventually unhypnotized and became themselves again, with their own names, personalities, and everything?

    Or do you think that the Dai Li and Joo Dees are still basically in charge of Ba Sing Se?

      Loading editor
    • I have a bad feeling that, after being brainwashed for so long, the only fate many of these women would have would involve padded walls and rather confining jackets. The mind is a fragile thing, and there is only so much it can take.

        Loading editor
    • I totally know the mind is a fragile thing and can only take so much, but I didn't quite understand the padded walls and confining jackets part. Did you mean most of those women will be stuck in a prison (due to Dai Li) or a mental help house, with walls and those straitjackets keeping them in because they are going crazy and maybe suicidal after being brainwashed for so long and finally trying to or actually realizing the truth of what happened/who they really are? Or did you mean their minds will be "confined/safely padded" to still/always believing they are Joo Dee because their brains' "walls and jackets" can't handle the truth?

        Loading editor
    • And here's where I wonder if Katara can help. She successfully helped Jet, why not the Joo-Dees?

        Loading editor
    • @ Misty

      A mental health facility, with the "confining jackets" referring to straightjackets. An experiance like the Joo Dee have had is not something that's going to be fixed overnight, and may result in some serious mental breakdowns. Some of them may never recover.

      @ Snarky

      Jet was only recently under the thrall of the Dai Li. The Joo Dee have had their minds beaten down over a much longer period of time, and much more frequently. They may very well be beyond a waterbender's aid.

        Loading editor
    • Agreed. But no reason not to try. Aang was brought back from the dead with water from the Spirit Oasis, true. He needed healing sessions (plural) with Katara after that. I cannot imagine the compassionate nature of waterbending healers would not respond to the need.

        Loading editor
    • Oh I'm sure. Some of the newer Joo Dees may even be cured relatively quickly. But you get those that have been brainwashed over decades, continually slipping into this eerily perfect personality, and you'll find some mental wounds too deep to heal.

        Loading editor
    • Then perhaps a gray ship into the west?

        Loading editor
    • Yes, off to the Undying Lands, to gaze upon the glory of the Valar and walk among the jeweled streets of Valinor, to be a part of the perfection envisioned by Eru, the one the elves call Illuvitar.

      Or something along those lines.

        Loading editor
    • LOL! Given the "rings" of the city, I suppose Joo-Dee can truly be called a "ring-bearer".

        Loading editor
    • The Air Nomad Critic wrote:
      @ Misty

      A mental health facility, with the "confining jackets" referring to straitjackets. An experiance like the Joo Dee have had is not something that's going to be fixed overnight, and may result in some serious mental breakdowns. Some of them may never recover.

      So I was right on my first guess of what you meant. But now my other question: Do you think that the Dai Li still secretly "rule" Ba Sing Se after the war, even though the Earth King then more powerfully returned to the throne, played a big part in the Harmony Restoration Movement, and reformed the Earth Kingdom government back to original form so he now has full power? We never know what the secret police could be doing.

        Loading editor
    • Chances are, for their treachery, they were hunted down relentlessly, possibly on the scale of the Air Nomads a century prior. If the leaders of the world and the Avatar have an ounce of common sense, they wouldn't just leave such dangerous and treacherous individuals roam free.

        Loading editor
    • That's true--that would be really wise. I just wish we could see what happened to all the Dai Li (not just the ones Azula brought to the Fire Nation and then banished). It says on their page's status that they were banished, but it could just mean Azula's Dai Li, and not all of them due to the Earth King and Avatar ordering them out.

      Is there any way to find out?

        Loading editor
    • Most likely no, unless they or a similar group come back in LoK for some reason

        Loading editor
    • What do you think, TANC? Do you think their status means all the Dai Li were banished, or just Azula's? The Earth King did reform the government...

        Loading editor
    • Banished, brainwashed, or excecuted. No ruler is going to let a group like the Dai Li stay in power after what they did.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, it was really sad what they did, and now that the Earth King is a lot smarter to everything, including what they did, he wouldn't let them have power.

      It's also sad that Avatar Kyoshi--an Avatar--created them, but didn't know they would eventually become evil and be the true government for awhile.

        Loading editor
    • I would be interested if the Dai Li still has the power in Ba Sing Se after the war because then many things would be different for the peopöe there

        Loading editor
    • The only way I could see the Dai Li retaining any sort of power is if they got a taste of their hypnotic medicine. That way, should they get out of hand again, their proverbial leashes could be yanked. Hard.

        Loading editor
    • Another question, but during the war:

      Do you think all those women who became Joo Dees just went into politics or government jobs, unaware of what could/was going to happen to them, and were then "slightly" kidnapped and hypnotized and everything?

      OR do you think that the women were just randomly chosen to be completely kidnapped and hypnotized against their complete free will?

        Loading editor
    • I think there could have been a fair number of avenues to become a Joo Dee. I'm guessing one big one was orphanages. Nice young minds, easy to mold.

      Another source could indeed be women who want a job higher up in the city but don't have the connections or birthrights.

      Heck, it might potenially even be a way out of a criminal sentance. Serve time or serve Ba Sing Se.

        Loading editor
    • Orphans would have worked, but all the women being hypnotized looked 25 at the youngest, and normally orphanages kick you out at adult age of 18. But I can see Dai Li keeping an eye on and finding those older orphans when they get older and then hypnotizing them.

        Loading editor
    • I think something more realistic with the women getting better due to healing sessions and massive therapy but probably having flashbacks like a PTSD victim.

        Loading editor
    • @ Misty

      Actually I was thinking the Dai Li would adopt the orphans when they're young and mold them over many years, then unleash them when they're adults.

        Loading editor
    • That seems like a good idea, but all our views of the Dai Li in Book 2 showed them as secretive and weird, with no chance of having a real family or even wanting to raise a kid (even if it was their job to mold them).

        Loading editor
    • I'm thinking the whole thing would look less like raising a kid and more like sending her to Spartan boot camp, only instead of spears and armor, the weapons of choice are clothing and an air of sophistication. Very tough, very strict, very conformist, not what most people would envision when raising a kid.

        Loading editor
    • Yikes reminds me of my political science class during my second year of college. I still have nightmares about those tests.

        Loading editor
    • I think that, with proper support, the Joo Dees would recover in a few years. If they'd simply had their hypnotism broken, with no follow-up therapy, I doubt they'd become delusional or dangerous. More likely, they would suffer from depression. If they were turned loose, still hypnotized, then they would probably go through their lives while still trying to be "Joo Dee."

        Loading editor
    • Or turn into a mob and demand Long Fengs head on silver platter along with all the other Dai Lee.

        Loading editor
    • Seriously with what they did and being so dangerous I don't see how the Earth King can allow them to live.

        Loading editor
    • I doubt they writers will put the Dai Lee back in control. You can see in "The Promise" that they're basically gone. It wouldn't make sense to go back on that development.

      Most likely, they lived in disgraced exile. No telling what their descendants might be up to, though.

        Loading editor
    • They could brainwash people that kind of ability not to mention the secrets they had on the citizens and politics and everything I don't see them just disappearing or being allowed to stay around "on good behavior". It's like a entire force of earthbending Ozai's but much smarter.

        Loading editor
    • I am tied between Neo Bahamut and Empressofmenibone. The Dai Li would most likely be exiled because of all the trouble they caused, but yeah, with all their brainwashing powers and secrets, this would be almost as dangerous as keeping them in the city, since they could come together and hypnotize people in other cities to try and overtake the government in Ba Sing Se again.

        Loading editor
    • I live to serve my fellow avatar fans.

        Loading editor
    • That would be very impractical, though. They'd basically have 3 possible strategies to do that:

      1. Take Ba Sing Se by force. This would require them to find people capable of fighting, & in large numbers. This really makes it likely that someone will find out & stop them long before they ever get to Ba Sing Se. Then they have to somehow get this force through the Outer Wall. And, frankly, the larger & more organized military is probably going to destroy this force easily.

      2. Take it by infiltration. This basically works the same way as Strategy 1, only instead of raising an army of warriors to conquer Ba Sing Se, they raise an army of bureaucrats to take over the city's functions. This solves a lot of the problems from the fighting option, but raises others: Even with everything working in their favor, no problems with the hypnotism, etc. it would take a very long time for a bunch of foreigners to work their way up. The Dai Lee also do not have direct control over what goes on in the city, they'd have to communicate with the hypnotized covertly.

      3. Do the dirty work themselves. Hypnotize a couple of people that can get them into the city, then enter & take it. The problem here is, they need people from the Ba Sing Se military, possibly even up to a general. This would be very hard for them to get. Then, assuming they can do this, they have to go up against the rulership & military of Ba Sing Se without any of the perks they previously enjoyed, like secret underground bases.

      Now, all of that is just talking about means, but I also question the motive. Why bother? Why go through such circuitous, arduous plans, that open them up to such great risk? Why not just find a village far, far, far away from Ba Sing Se, where they can make very good money from any one of their numerous talents?

        Loading editor
    • The Air Nomad Critic wrote:
      I have a bad feeling that, after being brainwashed for so long, the only fate many of these women would have would involve padded walls and rather confining jackets. The mind is a fragile thing, and there is only so much it can take.

      i fear that you may be right in that air nomad critic 

        Loading editor
    • I think some women were harder to snap than the others so I would say it would have to depend. the Joo Dee's make me think of the dauntless under simulation in divergent and that team avatar's Joo Dee was divergent thus she could break out of simulation and women like her could regain her memories and liver their former lives whereas women like the second Joo Dee team avatar met and the Joo Dee's under lake laogai in the room I like to call the Joo Dee training center were not divergent and could not break simulation on their own and needed some help in order to be freed and a lot of support to get back to a normal life and would probably face extreme discrimination in other cities or in Ba sing se and some may have stayed Joo Dee's until they died. I highly doubt that the Joo Dee's would just disappear I mean everybody would notice that the weird smiley tour guides disappeared. not to mention above all they really are pretty good tour guides. I am sorry if I had spoiled anything about divergent to those who have yet to read the book and desire to do so.

        Loading editor
    • YoushallNotpass wrote:
      I would be interested if the Dai Li still has the power in Ba Sing Se after the war because then many things would be different for the peopöe there

      Yes they took back controll.

        Loading editor
    • there are no more Joo Dee's although the earth queen recreated the Dai Li.

        Loading editor
    • Suden realization: what if the Dai Li planted the queen somhow? :0

        Loading editor
    • that is impossible because Earth King Kuei obviously abolished the Dai li after what they did to his kingdom and only a complete ignorant moron would leave them be. It only makes sense for the Queen whom is a tyrannical dictator and a b*tch to reinstate them.

        Loading editor
    • Fine.

        Loading editor
    • I just want to know how or why they would plant the Queen I mean she controls them entirely.

        Loading editor
    • ...or dose she???

        Loading editor
    • it seemed that way considering how she orders them around.

        Loading editor
    • That is what the Earth king thought.

        Loading editor
    • after the earth Queen died Ba Sing Se erupted into chaos I bet if King Kuei died before Huo-Ting nothing would've changed or Long Feng would've been named the new earth king.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, but the Dai li are still probably evil.

        Loading editor
    • they are evil if they weren't then they wouldn't serve her.

        Loading editor
    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Yeah, but the Dai li are still probably evil.

      but they want to secretly take power.

        Loading editor
    • we all know that they DO want to take power but with a queen like Huo-Ting i bet that she might be a very good fighter or an exceptional earthebnder. besides she brought them back they are possibly grateful for that.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      we all know that they DO want to take power but with a queen like Huo-Ting i bet that she might be a very good fighter or an exceptional earthebnder. besides she brought them back they are possibly grateful for that.

      They are just waiting like vultures.

        Loading editor
    • I think they probably left the Joo Dees hypnotized and let them do the jobs they were programmed to do, like guiding people around in Ba Sing Se.

        Loading editor
    • Supermensch wrote:
      I think they probably left the Joo Dees hypnotized and let them do the jobs they were programmed to do, like guiding people around in Ba Sing Se.

      How did they get in that situation.

        Loading editor
    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Supermensch wrote:
      I think they probably left the Joo Dees hypnotized and let them do the jobs they were programmed to do, like guiding people around in Ba Sing Se.

      How did they get in that situation.

      the women known as Joo Dee were invited for an audience with the earth king and they were hypnotized.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Supermensch wrote:
      I think they probably left the Joo Dees hypnotized and let them do the jobs they were programmed to do, like guiding people around in Ba Sing Se.
      How did they get in that situation.

      the women known as Joo Dee were invited for an audience with the earth king and they were hypnotized.

      Why were they picked specifically.

        Loading editor
    • if you thunk about it they ha joo dees ad now they have gun  

      mabye they stopped

        Loading editor
    • Masternick125 wrote:
      if you thunk about it they ha joo dees ad now they have gun  

      mabye they stopped

      What?

        Loading editor
    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Masternick125 wrote:
      if you thunk about it they ha joo dees ad now they have gun  

      mabye they stopped

      What?

      when aang was around the secutaries were a bunch of joo dees  

      with korra there was only gun 

        Loading editor
    • Masternick125 wrote:
      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:
      Masternick125 wrote:
      if you thunk about it they ha joo dees ad now they have gun  

      mabye they stopped

      What?
      when aang was around the secutaries were a bunch of joo dees  

      with korra there was only gun 

      Who is gun.

        Loading editor
    • Gun was the grand secretariat of Ba Sing Se (or earth queen Hou-Ting's servant) during the reign of earth queen Hou-Ting who was loyal to her out of fear did what she said and deserted her when she died. Gun is now a member of king Wu's royal cabinet and crowned him earth king with the royal brooch during his coronation.

        Loading editor
    • The Dai Li are still around.  They captured all the airbenders in Ba Sing Se, forcing them to train as soldiers.

        Loading editor
    • yes they are I watched them stand around happily watching earth bitch Hou-Ting die and when they abused the airbenders

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Gun was the grand secretariat of Ba Sing Se (or earth queen Hou-Ting's servant) during the reign of earth queen Hou-Ting who was loyal to her out of fear did what she said and deserted her when she died. Gun is now a member of king Wu's royal cabinet and crowned him earth king with the royal brooch during his coronation.
       Would not most people dessert someone when they die?
        Loading editor
    • most people would but Gun has some sort of unwavering loyalty

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      most people would but Gun has some sort of unwavering loyalty

      Wait, so he did or did not? You said both. Which is it?

        Loading editor
    • I have figured out that Gun was afraid of the red lotus and ran away and probably came back when they were done. He probably fled with Wu

        Loading editor
    • Glad that is all cleared up.

        Loading editor
    • I wonder what's going to happen to Gun now that the monarchy is gone...again.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: I wonder what's going to happen to Gun now that the monarchy is gone...again.

      He can finally retire and relax, I guess.

        Loading editor
    • He is old.

        Loading editor
    • Wait guys Joo Dee, Zhu Li. =0 
      Zhu Li

      Grouchy loyal assistant

      Joo Dee

      Happy Loyal assistant.

        Loading editor
    • ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Wait guys Joo Dee, Zhu Li. =0 
      Zhu Li

      Grouchy loyal assistant

      Joo Dee

      Happy Loyal assistant.

      they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too different.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:

      ShortswitsoxZ wrote:

      Wait guys Joo Dee, Zhu Li. =0 
      Zhu Li

      Grouchy loyal assistant

      Joo Dee

      Happy Loyal assistant.

      they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too different.

      Come on names, loyal assistant, Zhu li could be related to one.

        Loading editor
    • Zhu li was an assistant Joo Dee's were happy brainwashed tour guides who were just there to do Long Feng's bidding.

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote:
      Zhu li was an assistant Joo Dee's were happy brainwashed tour guides who were just there to do Long Feng's bidding.

      Yeah your right.

        Loading editor
    • exactly read another comment I put up.

        Loading editor
    • OK

        Loading editor
    • If all those Joo Dees got back to the way they were, they might not forgive themselves for what they did for the Fire Nation and the Dai Li.

        Loading editor
    • I smell some mass suicide

        Loading editor
    • Incidentally, I wrote a short story about the postwar Joo Dees, which involved a pair of them going on a date.

      I'd like to think of it as a romantic horror story.

        Loading editor
    • Neo Bahamut wrote:
      Incidentally, I wrote a short story about the postwar Joo Dees, which involved a pair of them going on a date.

      I'd like to think of it as a romantic horror story.

      ?

        Loading editor
    • http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Fanon:Mindless_Love:_How_Is_This_Possible%3F!

      It has more comments than every chapter of my more "serious" story combined.

        Loading editor
    • i never thought a Joo Dee could love. infact i thought that with brainwashing their ability to love would be destroyed 

        Loading editor
    • Avatar thoyrn wrote: i never thought a Joo Dee could love. infact i thought that with brainwashing their ability to love would be destroyed 

      The way that the Dai Li brainwashing appears to work is that it convinces you to get people to think & act a certain way while believing it is correct. But it only covers up the truth, as Jet was able to be convinced to break the brainwashing twice, & Joo Dee I's act was starting to break down from anxiety until Long Feng reinforced it with the Manchurian phrase. I also assume that, as long as something doesn't contradict their brainwashing, they'll do it as they normally would.

        Loading editor
    • you are misunderstanding something. none of them were really brainwashed, they were hypnotized. and the type shown in the series is impossible in real life. with that being said. once the dai li lost control and no longer were able to repeatedly hypnotize the JOO Dee's they wouldn't suffer from any psychological damage as part of the hypnosis causes memory loss

        Loading editor
    • Honestly, I'm surprised nobody brought up Grandma Yin, whom I headcannoned was either a Joo Dee/candidate to be one or at least knew one and aspired to be one as patriotic duty considering her age would fit and add a fittingly dark reason for her fanaticism.

        Loading editor
    • This thread died three years ago...

        Loading editor
    • SorcererSupreme21 wrote: This thread died three years ago...

      Actionmanrandell brought it back 13 days ago, so I saw it, read it and stated my peace.

        Loading editor
    • Headcanon about the first girl we saw's past self: Meiling Ai. Average moe girl. Then she got in trouble with the law, and now she's this abomination.

        Loading editor
    • Someone knows what happened to them years later in The Legend of Korra?

        Loading editor
    • An anonymous contributor
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.