Talk: Duels

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Name[]

I like the idea, but maybe this article should be moved so it is not a WOA article. Vaznock 23:13, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

No, it's fine with this name. It clearly set up as a WOA article. Also, while most articles use 300px images, it's better fit to use 250px since that does not make the infobox HUGE. Thanks. —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 00:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I just really like perfection, and I thought a 300px article would be better. By the way, I'll be helping create this article, since I know you're busy. Vaznock 01:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

No prob. Thanks, but I can as well handle this. I have as much time as I usually do, and this does not really take that much to write, the hardest is really just the characteristics part and remembering every single duel. The page should end up being large and FA worthy. —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 01:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps we should add duels between a little more people, such as Battle on the Gondala and Battle in the Abandoned Town(between Zuko, Aang, and Azula). Vaznock 01:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, yes, I completely forgot about those. I'll fix it to say "A duel can also be between a set of people, the largest know being 1 on 1 on 1 and 3 vs 3." —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 01:29, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Great. I'll start helping tomorrow. This article has some great potential. Vaznock 01:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

What I see this page becoming is: exaplaining how duels occur, and mentioning duels that aren't important enough to have their own pages. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:36, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, Omni. But we as well mention duels in battles, just MUCH less thoroughly and link to the battle it took place in, ya know, Main Article. —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 15:40, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea. Vaznock 15:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the article should be move to Duels too. No in WOA. And we can add a new description of duels, I mean: Combatants, Victor and Location...? Dcasawang1 ^- ^Talk ^- ^{Contributions} 18:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's true. This isn't a cultural aspect. The 888th Avatar ^(Talk) 21:39, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Should be add duels with animals, for exmaple: Appa vs the boar-q-pine in Appa's Lost Days or Aang and Katara vs the Serpent? Dcasawang1 ^- ^Talk ^- ^{Contributions} 21:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

'Choo beat. —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 21:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

We already have duels between animals (Appa, Nyla etc.), so, yeah. Vaznock - Talk 00:12, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Footnotes?[]

I don't know if I like the idea of foot notes. They require more editing and only mostly Flash's articles contain them, unlike many other articles. We should at least lay off of the them a little, instead of putting one in for every minor detail. Vaznock - Talk 22:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Further, the page would ending with a long list on the bottom. Dcasawang1 - Talk - Contributions 22:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

So....should I just delete them all, because they make the page rediculously long. Vaznock - Talk 23:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I see the big long list at the bottom of the page. Don't tell me Flash but them there and won't let you remove them? User:Luvingazula - Talk 21:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

That's three people. I'll remove them now. All of them. Vaznock - Talk 21:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Flash is crazy! You spam IRC and he goes mental! You disagree with him and..... You get the idea. User:Luvingazula - Talk 21:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Ummmm....lets not say things like that. CTS (changing the subject), did I miss any footnotes? Vaznock - Talk 21:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thailog disagrees. I think we need to discuss this. The references are going to literally take over the artcile, and it requires much more edits. Should we set up a vote for this, because three users have agreed that they should be removed, and one opposes. If no one else is going to agree or disagree, then they should be removed due to the fact that it's three to one. Vaznock - Talk 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Not really bothered. Do what you want. (Somebody told me you had a boyfriend who looked like a girlfriend) User:Luvingazula - Talk 21:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

They're just taking up so much of the article. Aang's page could have billions of footnotes but it only has one. I think they should only be used for things like Nick.com and audio commentary, which, so far, this article does not have. Vaznock - Talk 22:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I was unware there was a discussion going on. If space is the issue, I can tidy them up to take much less space. How does this look for you? ― T hailog 22:27, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't realize this would be such a big deal to everyone. I'm sorry. Luvingazula, stop bringing in obscure, insulting comments, it's rude, and considered against the civil rule of wikia. Finally, Thailog, we have that template here. If it's fine with everyone, we can use it. —Excelsior, The Flash - ^{(Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!)} 22:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

See Forum:References and Citations. We should decide whether we want to source articles. The 888th Avatar ^(Talk) 22:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Image size[]

Reduce by 200px as per bending articles? The 888th Avatar ^(Talk) 12:22, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm.....You know, I don't know. It looks fine like it is. Maybe......Vaznock - Talk 12:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Points[]

First, I think the duels list is hard to read - maybe just me! Do we need the word duel every where? several called battles, one is an attack - why are we inconsistent. Duels is being used in the widest sense; okay, why jump between these terms. Again, maybe me just trying to be consistent - it looks wrong to me!

Second, I'm blind. Where are...

1)Foggy swamp Tribe Vs Aang, Katara and Sokka.
2)Team Avatar Vs Azula, Mai, Ty Lee (Bumi/Tom Tom exchange)
3)Aang Vs the Rough Rhinos (Kyoshi Island)

OMG - I didn't use the term duel/battle/attack - does it count :) I did not know whether to mention the blue spirit??Piandao ^Talk 09:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

They are there. Vaznock - Talk 12:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Re A class[]

I carry no vote, I feel obliged to make a comment and therefore can't comment in the appropriate place (A class committee). It needs many spelling and grammar corrections - I'm finishing it tonight and you can check. I'll leave the pictures though. It will be in a sandbox I'll create under my user name/sanbox 1. I am seriously worried that articles are not fully read before nomination- sorry for bumping in, it was mainly to say I'm working on it. Oh and I thought I'd let you see how it looks with different titles 'Improving' all the Duel here there and everywhere content listPiandao ^Talk 19:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, but the we do read the articles. Of course an article so big will have grammar problems, especially in certain sections, but I can assure you were are a very capable Council. Vaznock - Talk 19:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Piandao's Changes[]

I've noticed Piandao is already applying his sandbox changes to the article, and there pretty good, but I'll ask it right now: Do we really need to be this specific? The article is already huge, and more content means much more mistakes and grammar problems will be found. Vaznock - Talk 11:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Your right about over expanding Vaznock - had the same thought, I'll hold off till more input from others defines the final direction, but I'll expand in sandbox only, BTW I took out more than 50 errors, not that I'm perfect. My thought -revert to the comprehensive list and make a page for each duel, though one of the smallest will be Zuko v Ozai as is only stacks up to a scar and banishment. Piandao ^Talk 14:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

That'd be great. And thanks for all you you're doing! Vaznock - Talk 18:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Appa Vs Momo[]

Should be in this page the imaginary duel between Appa and Momo? Dcasawang1 - Talk 21:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Imaginary, dreams ?? Maybe a page for dreams - just a thought Piandao ^Talk 22:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

mmm... I am not sure. Dcasawang1 - Talk 22:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Missing Catagory[]

"A duel can fall under one of two categories: bender vs bender or weapon vs weapon. As well as those, rare duels can be between more than one person."

What about Bender v Weapon? Zuko fought the Pirate captain and he was certainly not a bender so that is classed as Bender v Weapon. Did you miss it out or what? Chester Talk 19:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Multi-Person[]

Duels really are just between two people fighting at one time. A battle with more than two active participants isn't a duel. But why are there so many like that here? Tophvision 16:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I wanted to remove it, but there are way to many. —The Flash ^{Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!} 16:45, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

We can either create another page for multi-person small battles, or just rename this page. Tophvision 16:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The first would be best. —The Flash ^{Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!} 16:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll sandbox it- except that the Sandbox is currently occupied with my last page idea, Seismic Sense, which as far as I know hasn't been created yet. I'll just use my userpage. Tophvision 16:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I've done all I can for now- will finish later. Tophvision 17:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm opposed to splitting the page. Even if it's technically correct that multi-person battles aren't "duels", if we split it, the users will have to go to two different pages to see every fight, which is more difficult and confusing. We shouldn't sacrifice ease of use; the way it is now is convenient. If we have to, I support renaming the page. Puragus ^Talk 20:22, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, then, what's the verdict? I don't want to put together a page that won't be used. Tophvision 21:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason to split if you can rename the article to accommodate both concepts. ― T hailog 22:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Then how about Minor Battles? Vaznock - Talk 22:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly what I was thinking. Another idea might be something like Personal Battles or Small-Scale Battles. Puragus ^Talk 23:10, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Or Skirmishes. Tophvision 16:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Pic[]

To be honest, I prefer the pic that was at the top of the page before. I'd like to create an entry for "Duel between Ozai and Zuko," and use the pic currently at the top of the page for it. I'd like to use the pic that was there before for the top of the page. Puragus ^Talk 19:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, it wasn't even a duel. It was just Zuko redirecting Ozai's lightning. So, yeah, I don't think its valid having a main image of the confrontation or even mentioning it when it wasn't even a duel. Vaznock - Talk 20:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think it's worth having on the page. Puragus ^Talk 20:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Ditto. It was the defection of the heir to the thrown. If we take a look on Wikipedia, you'll see that validates as important enough. We as well usually count such things as important, no? Like the brief discussion I had made for Rescue in Pohuai Stronghold, it can be rapped up reason-wise for one simple reason: it led indirectly to the winning of the war. It as well led to the Final Agni Kai, and such.

On the topic of to keep the image, I like this one for it because it's wide and better since the old one was of a moment in a battle. Finally, is it really necessary to not allow the same images are two pages? It's going on on several articles right now. —The Flash ^{Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!} 02:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

No same image on two pages? Is that a new rule? The pic I'm suggesting is already on Zuko's page, but I see no reason it can't work on this one.

The reason I like it is that it more clearly shows the conflict between the two characters. Zuko and Aang are close-up and clearly visible. Plus, with the depiction of Airbending and Firebending bouncing off each other, we get a real good look at the character's abilities. When I first saw the pic at the top, I had to check myself, because it looked like Ozai was shooting at Zuko. It's good for that particular duel, but I don't think it's very clear. I think the other one just looks better. Puragus ^Talk 04:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

A quick note: it actually is better for us if it is on more articles as that is more coherent with the fair use laws. Less different images we have = the less illegal our site is :) Anyway, if it is suitable we should use it. Joey ^aa 04:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, Puragus, I believe you completely misinterpreted what I was saying. I was pointing out that the way you stated it made it seem as if you didn't agree with images on more than one pages. —The Flash ^{Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!} 05:35, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh. My mistake.

Joeyaa, out of curiosity, how illegal is our site right now? Or maybe this is something we shouldn't talk about. Puragus ^Talk 17:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Are there any more objections? Or are we agreed? Puragus ^Talk 02:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, we have a 3:1 Image to Page ratio, we use copyrighted images on profiles, and overall we host too much of the show's media. But, I'm not a lawyer so it isn't my position to say. I'll let you think about it. ;) Also, I agree with you guys on that image. Joey ^aa 02:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Hm...Maybe we should just keep it an "open secret."

I'm going to give everyone a few more hours to raise objections. If no one does, I'll change it tonight. Puragus ^Talk 16:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we're worse than any other wiki using copyrighted images under fair use law. At least we try to provide credit for them. However, the Image to Page ratio is troubling and should be curtailed. And we can start with this very page. It seems that every single duel is illustrated and most of these images are not used elsewhere. I say we only illustrate notable fights and leave only images that are also used on other articles. ― T hailog 19:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)