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This is the talk page for the article "Ba Sing Se".

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Modern/Real World Version

What would you say is the Modern/Real World Version of Ba Sing Se? It just seems so fimilar. I cant put my finger on it though. Newyorkme22 22:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Im thinking New York just with the size, population, and the law enforcement(not saying the NYPD is bad). But I would have to say China(I know its not a city) but the theme of the wall is based off The Great Wall of China. Scott 23:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The 'wall in a wall' is more like the Forbidden City, which is surrounded by present-day Beijing. The Emperor would live in a massive palace with multiple walls with himself in the middle with his wife/concubines while his officials would live and work on walls near the center etc.User:PhantomS 09:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it is partly based on North Korea. I was watching something today on North Korea and I couldn't believe the similarities. While the people of Ba Sing Se aren't forced to worship their leader like the people of North Korea, the way that they position their citizens is very similar. In North Korea, the most influential supporters of the government get to live in the capital city, and they must not make any mistakes that would offend the government, lest they be kicked out or worse. Also, the government controls all the media in the country, similar to how the Dai Li control the 'cultural history' of the city. Thoughts? Benz145ux 21:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Two things: First of all, you are contributing to a conversation that began months ago, and secondly, this conversation, if continued, must be at the forum. Try this one, and see if anyone will take up your comment. Chances are they will because the Forum: namespace is up and running. Thank you. --Energybender 21:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Quote

I want to add a quote about the city at the top of the article, but I can't think of a good one off the top of my head. Does anybody have a good quote that may be useful here? AlexTalk 23:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

This is not very good, I know, but it might be adequate: "Now Ba Sing Se is the only great Earth Kingdom stronghold left" (Sokka) or something like that... The 888th Avatar 00:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I can't remember it word-for-word, but I suggest Long Feng's little monologue towards the end of City of Walls and Secrets, that's interspaced with Jet's brainwashing. It was something along the lines about Ba Sing Se being a "Peaceful and orderly utopia...the last one left on earth." I remember that part, but I'm not sure if the whole thing would work, you should check it out. Puragus Talk 05:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Puragus' quote would work, but my opinion is that we need to emphasise Ba Sing Se as a safe place from the Fire Nation as well as emphasise its "utopia" type principles. Do you remember how Joo Dee says, "You're in Ba Sing Se. You're safe now" or "There's no war here" or something like that (can't remember exact words)? The 888th Avatar 10:54, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

What about Ju Dee's quote about outer walls to ensure safety and inner walls to ensure order? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:41, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's the full quote I suggested:

Long Feng: "It is the strict policy of Ba Sing Se that the war not be mentioned within the walls. Constant news of an escalating war will throw the citizens of Ba Sing Se into a state of panic. Our economy would be ruined. Our peaceful way of life, our traditions would disappear. In silencing talk of conflict, Ba Sing Se remains a peaceful, orderly utopia. The last one on Earth."

You could use all of it, or any part of it you think would be good, (I personally think those last two sentences are perfect).

I like the other suggestions too, but I think this one works better, since it's dramatic, and illustrates the totalitarian nature of the place. Puragus Talk 22:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I think Puragus' quote is fine. The 888th Avatar 23:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I do love the "Ba Sing Se remains a peaceful, orderly utopia. The last one on earth." part. Could we go with that? AlexTalk 00:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You can use any part you want. Although, I think the quote works best if you include the "In silencing talk of conflict" part, because it shows the despotic, Orwellian thing they've got going. Just my opinion. Puragus Talk 01:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea what you just said to be totally honest. But if you want to include that part it would be fine. AlexTalk 16:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm saying that I think the best quote would be: "In silencing talk of conflict, Ba Sing Se remains a peaceful, orderly utopia. The last one on Earth." But that's just my opinion. Puragus Talk 06:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay I added it. How does it look? Do you think this will work? AlexTalk 23:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Mattkenn3 Talk 23:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It's fine.The 888th Avatar 01:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Notable Figures.

Why is the cabbage merchant in the Notable Figures section? Katara-dobs-c2 - Avatar Junky -Talk 21:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. Maybe because he tried to travel to Ba Sing Se. I think it shouldn't be there. Dcasawang1 - Talk 21:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, he was there when Aang made the new Zoo, so I guess he did manage to get to BSS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
You're right. But I'm not sure if he is a notable figure of BSS. Dcasawang1 - Talk 21:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Dai Li are a group and not a 'figure' that makes two strikes! Piandao Talk 21:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Also he was not a citizen of Ba Sing Se, just a traveling merchant. Katara-dobs-c2 - Avatar Junky -Talk 21:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Eh, the Dai Li are figures. As for the cabbage merchant Ba Sing Se was the last place we saw him, so as far as this wiki is concerned, he is a notable figure. Vaznock - Talk 21:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Vaznock, you are not the wiki, please don't speak for everyone *soft voice*. Dai Li is not a figure, to add to the other individual figures (note the plural usage) 'they' are not a notable figure. it;s like saying MI6 are noteable figures. Put another way, they are an organisation. Piandao Talk 22:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Huhhhhhh.......Piandao, I wasn't speaking for the wiki. I was saying that as far as the wiki knows, the cabbage merchant is residing in Ba Sing Se because we saw him there.Anything else would be speculation. That's all I'm saying. Vaznock - Talk 21:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

so as far as this wiki is concerned, he is a notable figure came over to me as the wiki talking, not you. Anyway he is memorable, lovable and missable - not noteable? Piandao Talk 22:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I was stating that we are not a wiki of speculation, and that it would be speculation to suppose he left Ba Sing Se, because that is where we last saw him residing. Vaznock - Talk 22:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Anyway you seem to be putting it - I'm not seeing him as notable so far Vaz :) Piandao Talk 22:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, well, lets discuss. Here is why I think the cabbage merchant should be mentioned as a notable person.

  • The cabbage merchant was last seen in Ba Sing Se, so supposing he went somewhere else is simply speculation, something that is not put into articles.
  • Ba Sing Se was soon conquered by the Fire Nation, so its unlikely they would allow Earth Kingdom citizens to leave the city.
  • You do not go to a big city to temporarily sell cabbages. He probably had his heart set on selling his cabbages in the safety of a double walled city.

So, if your not persuaded by these reasons, show me your reasons. :) Vaznock - Talk 01:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The train from the outer wall to the city

Do we have any info on that? Why isn't it part of the page?

Outer Wall's First Appearance...

About a week ago, I added the Agrarian Zone and Outer Wall's first appearances. At first, the Outer Wall said "The Serpent's Pass." However, I realized that during Zuko Alone, when they show Iroh, the wall is shown, and Zuko Alone chronologically comes before The Serpent's Pass. However, my edit was reverted. For now, I'm putting it back, but if someone has a logical reason as to why it was reverted, I'd be more than happy to undo it.MRtG The Evil Within 19:41, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

I would wager a large reason your edit was reverted was because your edit actually wrecked the page's layout, and not so much as to what you attempted to enter. So unfortunately your edit simply got caught in a revert in order to fix the broken page. Vulmen (talkcontribs) 22:51, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Chinese

I've been wondering for a while why Ba Sing Se is called that, when the translation is actually Yǒng Gù Chéng. Why did the creators just make something up and pass it off for chinese, they don't usually do that... and Na Sing Se isn't real either, is it? Vanja1995sigAVanja1995sigB 20:49, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Trvia

After studying the Ming Dynasty of 1368-~1644 Japan, I have found some similarities with their social class system and Ba Sing Se.

In the Ming Dynasty, the emperor had no actual power, much like the Earth King of Ba Sing Se. Both the Earth King and the emperor had the highest rank in social classes, but in actuality, no legitimate power and control was given to either of them. The real power went to the Shogun, or in Avatar's case, Long Feng. The Shogun had absolute control over all in the dynasty.

Those who were loyal to the Shogun were the Daimyo. Notice the similar name to the Dai Li in ATLA, who were loyal to Long Feng, not the Earth King.

Perhaps the writers of Avatar based Ba Sing Se's social class system on the Ming Dynasty's system. This is just a theory, however. I'm not sure if it's enough to add to the article, so I'm just leaving this here for others to decide. I don't have proper citing, in case you were wondering, as I recieved this information in a History book - one that I cannot find. Wutx (talkcontribs) 18:47, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Ba Sing Se = State?

I wanted to ask this here first just to be safe. Throughout Book 4 of LOK, Kuvira has been seen with a map of the Earth Kingdom that shows the various states of the Earth Kingdom, as seen here. If you notice, there is a very large state that is exactly the same size as Ba Sing Se..implying that it is not only the capital city, but a state of the Earth Kingdom. Should we add this to the article? --8th Mizukage (wallcontribs) 02:12, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how the fact that Ba Sing Se is also a state removes its status as a capital city. That said, it can be added that it is also a state. Lady Lostris Wiki.png (talkHotN) 09:55, December 10, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry for any confusion, I didn't mean that it wasn't the capital city as well.I just wanted to be sure that we could agree that it was also a state as well based on Kuvira's maps. --8th Mizukage (wallcontribs) 00:16, December 11, 2014 (UTC)
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