To avoid an edit war, since I still strongly disagree with your notion that making the distinction makes it more unclear when the very reason I changed it in the first place was because it currently is confusing and unclear.
For example, seeing that Rangi was listed as a deceased character confused me, as she's a Kyoshi novel character, which thus firstly struck me as being a major spoiler, before thinking indeed "right, currently timeline". If I already wondered about, what will a user with less knowledge about the workings of the wiki say about it? The easy solution is to just make the distinction per show/book from where we know the character from. That also instantly gives the additional added value that you from where those characters came from. I could agree with the notion that it's too OOU (although we use it on the bending pages as well), but then I would counter that we can just easily put some dates then, because being "notable" by itself is also very subjective and time-bound.
Also, if you throw them all together, we basically need to list everyone, save for the TLoK characters, as dead, which makes it a very redundant thing to do.
So if we want to keep those lists clear logical, we should either insert a distinction to indicate in which time period a certain character is considered to be deceased or we should just do away with the deceased indication altogether.
Another bonus to have the distinction per time period is that it allows you to indicate character movements. Take Aang for example, he's a notable Southern Air Temple figure in ATLA but also a notable Republic City in TLoK. You and I know that because we know the series by heart and know how those pages word. Other people do not, which is confusing.
Simply put, I feel differently; for me, seeing characters listed several times, not to mention characters who lived at the same time split into different sections (Kyoshi's daughter Koko, for example, who lived during Kyoshi's time, but is not listed in the novel section as she was born after the novels - yet stll hundreds of years before ATLA) seems extremely odd and IMO confusing. I see your point, but it is probably an issue of perception and thus subjective.
I also think that people moving from one place to another is not an issue at all. Today, many people have several areas they regard as homes or are otherwise attached to. In the Avatar universe, the same is true: Kyoshi herself was not born on Kyoshi Island, and neither was Jianzhu, yet both regarded it as their home. The same is true about Aang and others such as Katara: Katara spent much of her adult life away from the South Pole, and clearly saw Air Temple Island as her home, yet always remained attached to the Southern Tribe, even spending her later years there. To list Aang as person of the Southern Temple in ATLA, but as Republic City citizen in LOK would downplay these dual loyalities and attachements, and I think that we shouldn't do this.
Other than the issue in regards of people being listed as deceased, unified in-universe lists seem to have worked for the past years; I feel that they should remain as they are - except extremely long lists (such as with benders).
In fact, however, I strongly agree with removing the deceased indication from the lists. Since Lao Ge and some other characters such as Tienhai have appeared who have showcased that immortality is possible and mortality can be fluid in the Avatar universe, these indications have become flawed anyway (how should one list Iroh or the Painted Lady, for example? They are not dead in the truest sense). In addition, we might get more novels / comics about past Avatars in the future which would bring even more confusion to the lists.
In addition, as you brought "notability" up: We should probably discuss who is "notable" in regards to the nation articles; for example, the list of characters on the Earth Kingdom article is extremely arbitrary. We should clarify whether "major" characters in the shows, novels, and comics should be listed or characters who were important in-universe. As an example: The 46th Earth King is an extremely minor character in the shows, yet very important for the Earth Kingdom's history.
I noticed you removed the part about Iroh being named after "Uncle" Iroh because it's unconfirmed, however wouldn't you think that something like that doesn't need to be specifically "confirmed" to be true? Voiced by Dante Basco, named Iroh, the way they revealed his name the first time we saw him was a pretty big reveal. Also, HoT mentioned on the Discord that Bryan Konietzko referred to him as "Iroh the Younger" which may be considered confirmation as well.
I know it seems obvious, but it matters that we have no source outright confirming it. For example, everyone always just believed that Avatar Kyoshi was born on the later Kyoshi Island - it was a natural conclusion, so it was included on the wiki for years. But no source actually stated that she had been born there - only that it had been her home for much of her life. As it turned out, Rise of Kyoshi revealed that it was completely wrong.
These issues crop up now and then. I know that it feels annoying, but as the Kyoshi example showcases, we cannot just assume something because all evidence seems to indicate it. We have to get a canon source.
Hey there DFT! First of all, I hope you're doing well! Secondly, I saw you added locations of Zigan and Hujiang, and wanted to quickly point out that I believe there might be a mistake on the map given with the B&N edition. Though it is possible that Zigan isn't a part of the Eastern Provinces, or the Provinces is weridly not in the east, the book very clearly says that Hujiang is in the Taihua Mountains and the mountains are located in south of Ba Sing Se. I don't have the book with me right now, but if I remember correctly there was even an entire passage about the mountains, saying how it protected Ba Sing Se from the armies coming from south. There's even a part in the book where the group get pretty close to the walls of Ba Sing Se while going from Hujiang to Zigan, which wouldn't be possible according to this map. What are your thoughts about it, and if you agree which location should we use?
I swear I'm not stalking you ;-p Another question: do you have a source for this edit? Save from starting from the notion that Kuei is 25 in ATLA, as was stated on his article? We're trying to track down the source of that number, without any tangible results thus far.
Well, Jinpa says: "You see, it's customary to maintain a level of separation between those who've taken a life, directly or indirectly, and those who have remained spiritually pure." Kyoshi reflects that Kelsang saved the lives of countless villagers by killing pirates, yet was treated as unclean.
I believe that self-defense is also included due to the "directly or indirectly" line. Might be a stretch. Anyway, one should also not forget that about three hundred years passed between Kyoshi's early life and Gyatso's time. Philosophies change. In fact, the novel's chapter 1 mentions that the Air Nomads had become extremely detached from the world by Kyoshi's time. Jinpa was also treated as a oddity among his peers due to him managing the temple and its economy instead of focusing on enlightenment. By Aang's time, the Air Nomads actually appear to have taken greater interest in world affairs and non-spirtual matters.
Indirectly killing someone could also be not helping someone in need when you know you can and your inactivity will result in their death (like in modern times not calling an ambulance for someone who's been beaten to near death). So I do think dragging self-defense into that may be too much of an assumption. Self-defense nearly always changes things.
I did this, but I reckon I should talk to you first about this, since you're really on top of the Avatar history. In short, do we have evidence that the current ruling family dates back to the very beginning? I'm getting the vague feeling that Smoke and Shadow delves more into that, but I've only skimmed that graphic novel. Can you shed some light on this? Please and thank you!
Smoke and Shadow is somewhat vague on the issue, as it states that the Fire Lords before Sozin were Zuko's ancestors, while also telling us that the current royal family (including Zuko) know very little about the Fire Lords before Sozin.
What one could read from The Shadow of Kyoshi has confirmed that the Fire Nation's noble families being descendants of the Fire Islands' warlords and has hinted that the royal family is descended from the first Fire Lord.
However! Both The Shadow of Kyoshi and other media have also stated that there were different dynasties and numerous conflicts within the Fire Nation and the royal family (In fact, TSoK's chapter 5 more or less states that Chaeryu was Zoryu's direct predecessor, yet Zoryu seems to regard Chaeryu not as close relative in the novel's epilogue).
The situation is probably similar to that of the British Royal Family: Its current dynasty, House Windsor, officially started in 1917. Yet its current head, Queen Elizabeth II, is the direct descendant to the rulers of Wessex of pre-1000. Almost all dynasties ruling Britain were, strictly speaking, part of the same family. Thus, the most likely scenario is that both Zuko as well as Zoryu are descendants of the first Fire Lord and part of the same family. However, Zoryu might not be Zuko's ancestor and be instead part of a different dynasty. Overall, the Kyoshi-era Fire Lords should be treated as "distant relatives".
Hey DFT, could you share a link to your source for the new TRoS preview? The Amazon one only covers the prologue, first chapter, and epilogue. Kassilon mentioned that someone found a workaround to get the preview to extend to chapter 5, although it generally doesn't show up. If that is the case though, everything taken from chapters beyond the prologue, the first chapter, and the epilogue is considered a leak and should be immediately removed from the wiki.
It is definitely part of the regular preview and actually super easy to access. In essence, Amazon limits the number of pages one can view as part of the preview, while the prologue, chapter 1-5, and epilogue are part of the preview pool of pages. If one starts to read the preview from the beginning, they only reach up to chapter two or three as they exhaust the max number of pages.
One can access chapter 5 by simply using the search bar when reading the preview for the first time. Just log into an amazon conto or access amazon through an adress where the max number of preview pages have not yet been exhausted, then search for the title of chapter five, or "Fire Lord Yosor" or something similar (which is mentioned in chapter 5). The preview then jumps to that point, and one can read said part of the preview. In return, one can read much less of the prologue, and the earlier chapters.
When I first searched, I did not look for Yosor - I didn't know their name yet. I was looking for Chaeryu, of whom I knew from Kassilon's edits. Chaeryu is mentioned not just in the epilogue, but also in chapter 5, shortly before Yosor.
By the way, other previews for books on Amazon actually function similarily. Many novels provide quite long previews which you access in the same way. So I doubt that it is a coding bug.
After a discussion about this, the hoops one has to jump through did land us on the side of considering the info of chapter 4 and 5 to be leaks; the dumb luck in finding it doesn't mean that it was meant to be found. No one is in trouble for adding that information, but we're going to hold off till the official release. The minute the book drops, it can be added again. I do apologize for the inconvenience this causes you, and I do want to make it perfectly clear that your effort to immediately add the information is greatly appreciated.
True. When the preview is online again, and one can still access chapter 4 and 5, we would also know that it is indeed part of the legitimate preview. If the chapters are not included, we would know that it was an accidental leak.
Considering that this book has less pages than the previous book and that the previous book's preview only contained part of one chapter (if I remember correctly), so many available chapters this time seems wrong to me. If this book had more pages, okay, sure, but it doesn't, so it is very weird that they would put out so much content plus even the epilogue.
If i may so, I think that F.C. Yee's backstory for the Yangchen's predecessor is a great idea, and really different from all other Avatars we know so far. I am very happy that he was chosen to write the Kyoshi novels; they greatly enriched the canon. In addition, one can see how much care he puts into writing to adhere to the existing canon. He even correctly used "pig chicken" to refer to the picken in the Fire Nation.
Was there any indication that the company itself would make a reappearance, and not just the members? If their appearance is as part of Kyoshi's Team Avatar, then I would not consider that an appearance of the company.
From what I understand, the Flying Opera Company is Kyoshi's Team Avatar. All remaining members serve as her guardians and bending teachers, and she has outright stated in the novel's last chapter that she will remain a daofei as well as stay true to her vows to the Flying Opera Company, meaning that the group remains active.
Hey DFT, I noticed that you recently created some categories, such as the Daofei, pirates, and organized crime. However, per our own Avatar Wiki:Categorization policy, all new category creations should be subjected to a War Room discussion to gauge its necessity. Although your suggestions would most likely have been accepted anyway, it is still a rule that should be followed by everyone.