Forum:Republic City Police Force

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A page may be created in addition to the existing Metalbending Police Force article to provide an overview of the law enforcement authorities in Republic City.
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Hey guys. I'd like to propose a change to the "Metalbending Police Force" article. I believe that the article should be changed to "Republic City Police Force". I say this because we know that there are numerous non-benders on the force, as well as the fact that Mako joins the police in Book Two: Spirits. Now, as for the content on the article, we will simply be more specific. For example, under the "uniform" section, we can keep the information on the metalbenders' uniforms, but also add information on Mako's uniform and the non-benders' uniforms. Similar changes can be made throughout the rest of the article as well, with us making sure that we specify what types of officers are deployed in certain situations under the "history" section. Lastly, this would also solve the elemental icon problem, as groups aren't supposed to have elemental icons. DarkKnightRises (wall • contribs) 11:04, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose. We only know Mako becomes a police officer, but we do not know if there is going to be a new police force. That's speculation number one. Also, calling it a name that has not been confirmed is also speculation, speculation number two. So if you think about it, renaming the entire police force for the sake of one single firebender being in it — plus we can't be sure he isn't in a different one — isn't something that's going to happen here, in the real world, nor in the Avatar world. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  14:48, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I oppose as per above. Most of the content would just be speculation for now, so we should wait for more information to come out. SukitheNinja 15:20, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should wait until we see other types of benders in the Republic City force before we change it. Omashu Rocks (Talk - Crossfire) 17:38, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Support: I don't think the official in Universe name has ever been declared. Although Lin said she only used metal benders, Metal Benders is really more of an adjective to describe them, not actually what they are. They are Republic city's offical police force who happen to be majority metal benders. But they are the police force first. Koh Koh the Face Stealer 21:34, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

It is stated to be so on Nick.com, in the Welcome to Republic City (game). Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  21:53, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Support: There are non-benders on the police force, such as the grey-suited policemen carrying billy clubs and the clerical staff seen in the season finale. Since we now know that Mako is joining the police, that also means there are some policemen who are not metalbenders. The name isn't speculation, because all the police vehicles and police tape have "Republic City Police" written on them. Since that was personally commissioned by Mike and Bryan from Siu-Leung Lee, that would indicate that that is their official name. I think that "Metalbending Police" is either a), a division of the police, or b), a shorthand name since most of the police are indeed metalbenders. telane (wall • contribs) 22:25, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

May I be kind enough to remind everyone here that policy strictly states that no speculation shall be included on articles? What is proposed here is ignore strictly clear, officially released information by one of our main sources, Nick.com. What we need to do is be patient. We can't just make up names n this case. Who knows, Mako could have joined a different police force. And there might truly be two divisions. But if we start adding speculation to that article, that includes making up a title, we will loose all of the ideals we have been working so hard to preserve. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  13:27, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

The name "Republic City Police" is not speculation. It is written on the police vehicles, the police tape, and the airships (albeit in Chinese), and deriving information from this kind of source has not been a problem in the past. The Chinese texts the Creators have included in the series are a valuable source of extra tidbits of information, and since it is translated by Mr. Lee directly from the creators, and appears in the show, it should be considered canon. For example, Jeong Jeong and Chey's ages are listed on their wanted posters, but are never mentioned anywhere in the series. We accept this as an reliable source. And we very frequently receive conflicting information: Nick.com listed Kya's name as Kaya, for example, but this is overridden by the credits. The show says Azulon reigned for 23 years, but this was overridden by Mike and Bryan. Jeong Jeong's wanted poster says he is 60 years old, while the translation in the art book says he is 61 (which I ignored because the translation in the art book includes a lot of things that are not actually on the poster.) Even the creators give out conflicting statements, such as whether Zuko was ever considered as a love interest for Katara. In these cases, we must always make a decision about what counts as the higher level of canon.

Back on topic, though: As far as I remember, the only time the police force was referred to as "metalbender cops" was when they were literally referring to metalbender cops, in the same way you might refer to a firebender cop. But perhaps the best way to do this would be to look for any instances when the police are directly referenced, and see what we can find. telane (wall • contribs) 21:53, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

While I don't oppose the renaming of the article, I must point out that the current name also comes from a canon source, that being the Welcome to Republic City interactive tour. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

I know that. I just think that it's referring to the actual metalbending police force, not the police force as a whole. And I did a quick scan of the transcripts: closest I saw to the phrase "Metalbending Police Force" was when Shiro Shinobi calls them "metalbender cops". (And that was the only time the words "metalbending" and "police" were uttered in the same phrase.) They do get called metalbenders a lot, but that's just because they ARE metalbenders. telane (wall • contribs) 01:23, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose. MateyY is right, we should stick to what is canon on this one. As for the point on mistakes on Nick.com, you just have to account for human error; it happens everywhere. However, that still does not override the fact that it is an official source with firsthand knowledge on the series as a whole. It should be renamed after we have more information on them, if at all. KettleMeetPot (wall • contribs) 02:18, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose. The Metalbending Police Force is a special unit part of the general police force, so changing that name with be canonically incorrect. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 02:25, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose as per all above reasoning. We have an official name from several sources. Changing it to a speculative name is both unnecessary (as Lostris explained about the specialized branch of the police force) and entirely against policy. Monkeyfeathers94 (wall • contribs) 02:31, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Considering the opposition people are showing, may I suggest splitting the article? It would account for both the general force and the specialized unit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:09, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Omnibender, and actually with Lady Lostris too. I have no problem with using the current name for the police unit that actually uses Metalbending: however, I question its applicability towards the whole of the force. No evidence has been given so far that the term "Metalbending police" (which is, by the way, never used in the series) applies to anyone but the actual Metalbending police; furthermore, no source has been given for the name "Metalbending Police Force" besides nick.com, which has always been subordinate to in-show information - and in this case, the only name used in-show is "Republic City Police". So I think splitting it would be the best idea here. (We'll no doubt need to do that eventually when we get more information on Mako's police unit anyway, since by this point it should be clear to everyone that there are more than just metalbenders on the police force.) telane (wall • contribs) 03:31, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a need to make speculative adjustments to articles. I think it's best to wait and see what happens before changing anything.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  09:00, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree that we should wait, but I just wanted to put this topic out there. DarkKnightRises (wall • contribs) 10:21, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Per Tech. It would be plain speculation: we do not know if there is a separate unit that Mako joined. We do not know anything about his career as an officer! And just to express my opinion, there's no need to look at what it says on their airships in a foreign language — Chinese — when you have it written in plain English. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  14:34, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I just feel the need to again point out that what is written on the vehicles neither started out in Chinese nor was out there just to be decorative. All the writing used on the show comes originally and directly from Mike and Brian. They figure out - in English - what they want to call something, and then send it to Siu-Leung Lee to translate it, who then sends it to the background artists, who are again working directly with the creators. That means that the creators PURPOSEFULLY chose to call it the Republic City Police force (in English) and to have it translated as such, instead of using "Metalbending Police Force" (which I again remind everyone was never used in the series). It also means that this name went through multiple steps of consideration to be approved, appears in multiple multiple episodes, and comes directly from the TV series. In my opinion, that is a lot more important to take into consideration that a name that appears only ONCE in a source of secondary cannon.telane (wall • contribs) 17:45, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

Policy states that Nickelodeon is a main source of ours. The series, one could argue, are even better, but, in this case, you would be wrong, as this is in Chinese. Not all translation in Chinese has to literally translate in English. Also, translations may vary. Both "Republic City Police Force" and "Police Force of Republic City" convey the same message, but since the wording is different, they are different titles. Only one, however, can be canonical. Thus, translation would lead to multiple inaccuracies, so it is not a good idea to use it. We have it confirmed in plain English; why don't we just use the information someone gives us so simply, plainly, and willingly? For the rest, we just need wait and see. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  17:51, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

I want to make it clear that I do not want to rename the Metalbending Police Force itself. I'm certainly not arguing that nick.com isn't a valuable source of information, and I agree that it seems that is indeed the name of that division of the police. Rather, I want to split the article as Omnibender proposed so it is clear that that name does not apply to the entire police force, which is the Republic City Police Force. It's very possible for both names to be canonical, because they refer to different things. The Metalbenders are distinctly shown to be a division of the overall police force. It was stated very clearly that the Metalbending police are an "elite SWAT-like" group. (That was directly said at Comic-Con by one of the creators, though I forget which.) Even on the Nickelodeon site, Beifong says "I run AN elite force of Metalbending police officers". The Republic City Police Force, on the other hand covers all police, including the nonbonding ones that are seen in the first episode and the finale and will presumably include Mako next season. (And there's a very big difference between a loose translation and a translation that means something completely different. When "Firebending" becomes "make fire technique", that can be written since there is no chinese word for firebending. When Kuang's Cuisine becomes "Kuang Family Delicacies", that can be written off as a similar translation. But when "Metalbending" turns into "Republic City", it is clearly not a problem of "the translation is not quite literal" or "there was no Chinese word for Metal-bending". It was a deliberate choice made by the creators.) telane (wall • contribs) 23:28, July 16, 2012 (UTC)

"It's very possible". That's what the problem is! It is very "possible". Possibility is not probability, just the way probability is not certainty. So what you are saying is: I am speculating, but I'm fine with it, as it is very possible. I think it is best we wait patiently, so that we reach the position of certainty, rather that possibility. We don't know if there is going to be a separate division. What we do know is that the Metalbending Police Force is the only police force in Republic City. Everything else if speculation. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  01:29, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Omni's and telane's idea for another page. Clear Chinese writing on the sides of airships etc. is definitely not speculation, and we treat in-episode material as our highest authority. This is especially when the Chinese writing given only has one translation that would pass a professional test: "Republic City Police Force". (Changing word order where it's unnecessary, such as to "Police Force of Republic City", is considered unprofessional.) These overly-strict interpretations of what is "speculation" have gone far enough. The 888th Avatar (talk) 01:53, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I still feel that we should wait. All we are certain about is that there is a metalbending police force. Maybe they there will be a firebedning or waterbending police force, but I think that we should wait before making any changes.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  05:27, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I also agree (per Omni, telane, and 888) with the idea of creating a new page for "Republic City Police Force" and leaving the "Metalbending Police Force" as is, with minor adjustments. It's not true that the metalbenders are the only police force, because there are clearly non-metalbender cops in the show. I can think of at least 3 times (there may be more) that they were shown: once when Korra was fishing (ep.1), once when Korra confronted the protestor (ep.3), and a scene during the equalist attack with police running in the hallways that were filled with gas (ep. 10). There is definitely enough info for a separate article without adding any speculation.Zuqiu85 (wall • contribs) 22:03, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think we just need wait until the second book have aired. Bryan call Air Temple Island as "Air Sanctuary", but later we use "Air Temple Island" instead the sanctuary, as it was changed officially. Maybe, later in 2013 they call "Republic City Police Force" as the years passed, and we user "..." or usually called "..." . Acer Indonesia Ask anything about fanon! • TCA:TFF 08:16, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Acer, as well as with many others, that we should wait. However, I don't think Bryke calling Air Temple Island an "air sanctuary" a good example; the way I see it, they were describing it. (I haven't watched the last Comic-con in a while, though.) But it is best we wait, so then we can be sure. There is no need to hurry. All that we can do is mess up. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  15:30, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

The comparison to Air Temple Island is not really accurate. Air Temple Island is called by that name several times in the series, and was never called anything else, as the history of the page attests to. It was definitely just described as a sanctuary at Comic Con. In any case, in this case we aren't arguing to change the name of the Metalbending Police Force, but rather to create a separate page for the Republic City Police, since we know that the Metalbenders are just one branch of the police (though I admit this isn't helped by how much the series focuses on them). telane (wall • contribs) 18:41, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

...which would be speculation, because we don't know that there is going to be a different division, and we do not know how it's going to be called. Thank you it: If the Metalbending Police Force are also called the Republic City Police Force, then the new division cannot be called that. In any case, it is necessary that we wait. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  21:14, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Matey, I think you're misunderstanding telane. His argument is that the Metalbending Police Force is a part of the entire Republic City Police Force, which is clearly true because there are non-bender cops on the force. Another way to say it is that all Metalbender cops are part of the Republic City Police force, but not all cops are part of the Metalbending Police Force. It just doesn't make sense to say that the non-bender cops belong to the "Metalbending Police Force" if they are not metalbenders themselves. None of this is speculation, just straightforward logic and observation. As far as I can tell, there is no longer anyone in the forum that suggests adding information about Mako or other kinds of benders as police, which would indeed be speculation.Zuqiu85 (wall • contribs) 22:58, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I think I missed the episode in which we saw non-benders be a part of the force. True, Amon took the benign of some of the officers, but you do not know that they rejoined. Mako is the first non-metalbending cop in Republic City as far as we know. And people don't make subdivision as of a division if there is going to Boone subdivision only. The truth is that the Republic City Police Force is the Metalbending Police Force only right now. Saying that there is another division without any confirmation is speculation. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  14:43, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

And the operators who could only stand by as Tenzin faced half a dozen mecha tanks in the tenth episode were... what, elephants? Seriously, it's a mistake to take "no speculation" too far. A real mistake. The 888th Avatar (talk) 14:55, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Another devision of the police force would also be Tarrlok's task force. They have clear police authority and even wear the badges on their uniforms, so it is clear that there are many subdivisions of the police force. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 14:58, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

<image removed due to AW's policy> This is from episode 1. The cop tells Korra that fishing is not allowed and she runs away.

<image removed due to AW's policy> Here are cops wearing the same uniform, running thru the halls of Police HQ before they were gassed (episode 10)

Wow, that's true, I actually hadn't thought of the task force members as part of the police. Anyway, I had already mentioned where the non-bender cops were present in the show, but I'll just put up two screeshots to jog your memory. As you can see, they wear gray uniforms, helmets, wield truncheons, and run around in Police HQ. You could argue that there is no proof that all these guys are nonbenders, but there is definitely no way you can say that these guys are not policemen. Zuqiu85 (wall • contribs) 20:04, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

It would seem then that the metalbenders are a subgroup of the overall police force. They might be the main subgroup, but a subgroup nonetheless.DancePowderer Talk 16:05, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with DancePowderer. The MBPF might just be a subgroup, and Mako might just be a patrol officer like the guy from the park in Welcome to Republic City. For now I think it should be left as is until more information is discovered. Eat Cabbages, ...they're good for you... Isn't little Yangchen cute? 17:02, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, let's just say those men aren't metalbenders, because of their different uniform and that they've never been seen bending. However, it would still be speculation to define a separate division. Let's just wait until we have more information. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  20:35, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Those images provided show people that hardly were even in the series, how do we know if they can bend or not? Until it is confirmed, that is speculation.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  08:59, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, they are haven't shown bend or not; but I still stand to await until the series started again - or ever ended. We got a "accurate" information on A:TLA section as the series had ended; which we already know almost 100% of the series. Korra is still 25%, so several mistakes definitely are there. Acer Indonesia Ask anything about fanon! • TCA:TFF 09:03, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

So, waiting game it is.DancePowderer Talk 09:07, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Whether those people bended or not is even irrelevant. Their uniforms are significantly different from the Metalbending Police officers and in all we have at least 4 different kind of police uniforms proving the fact that there are many subdivisions of the force and thus warrant a general page about the police force with links to the Metalbending Police Force and Tarrlok's task force. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 09:09, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Not to forget the operators within the communications room during "Skeletons in the Closet"; they were clearly non-benders since they didnt bend when they were attacked by the Equalists. AND they also wear a different uniform from those of the other police groups. DyingFlameTsui (wall • contribs) 09:30, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

About the man in the park: Have any of you ever read Mary Poppins —— no, not watched the musical or the movie, read it? If so, you would discover in the simplest way that it was common in the beginning of the 20th century to have park-keeper. Was he a part of the police? No, he was just there to keep the part in tact. And about those people running through the holes, yes, the uniform may point in a direction that they aren't metalbenders; but you can't just make that up. What if they can bend a different element: you can't call them non-benders. I say we wait until everything is made clear. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  13:58, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

And the reason those officers running in the corridor and your claimed "park-keepers" (by the way, I did read/see Mary Poppins) have the exact same uniform is...? The 888th Avatar (talk) 14:04, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Per 888, those men running around in the police station have the exact same uniform as the "park keeper", so unless they are all there to cater for the plants of the police station, they are part of the police force. And again, as I mentioned above, the fact that there are policemen with different uniforms already warrants the creation of a "Republic City Police" page with subsections to the Metalbending Police Force and Tarrlok's task force, regardless to the fact whether or not those people are benders. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 14:09, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

However, all we've seen them do is keep a park in tact! I'm not saying they couldn't be a part of the police force; I'm just saying you need to look at it differently. If all we've seen them do is keeping a park in tact, we can't know what Mako's going to do, as he obviously is no metalbender, so we can't go around creating pages about divisions, subdivisions, and so on. We need to wait. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  14:14, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

You're forgetting something, Matey. All we see them do is keep a park in tact and running around through the police buildings, thus more logically constituting them as part of the police force. Mako has been said to become a policeman, so we're waiting because we just want to be slow with change and want to be the last in general to update pages? We are supposed to be an accurate encyclopedia, we cannot be that if we wait for every stupid thing like this when the supporting evidence is so clear. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 14:17, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

MateyY, we're suggesting a general page for the police – law enforcement – in Republic City. We don't need to know whether something is a subdivision of something or another. We just need to know that there is more than one formal law enforcement authority under the "police" umbrella, and we do know that. You've blown the whole "no speculation" thing way out of proportion. The 888th Avatar (talk) 14:21, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Say you make that page: What content is it going to include? It's going to end up being all about the Metalbending Police Force, as we barely have any information about the supposed other division. We don't even know which "division" Mako is going to join. We have no new information that would be lengthy enough to make up a good contribution. Matey Y. (talk • A:TLoM)  14:24, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Out of the top of my head -so please mind that I would still have to do my research by rewatching certain episodes- it would include stuff about the general workings of the force, about the people working in the control room, a short section referring to the metalbenders and the task force, something about the guy that returned Naga to Korra, and a mention of Mako. So I am pretty confident that there are users that could me a decent article of relevant information of the police force without falling into repetition. Please note as well that part of the information now hosted on the Metalbending Police Force page is not directly relevant to the metalbenders, but more to the police in general, so that information would be moved as well. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 14:28, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Per Matey. We know nothing about the new police force. We shouldn't create a page out of speculation. The last thing we knew about the police force is that they were metalbenders. Leaked information about Mako being a cop shouldn't require a whole new page.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  19:22, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

As Lostris and 888 have been saying repeatedly, we're not making a new page that deals with speculation about Mako or any new police force. We're making a new page with "old" information. On another note, should we have a vote on this issue or wait for more feedback from users?Zuqiu85 (wall • contribs) 20:01, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Zuqiu. We are indeed not creating a page about a new police force, I truly don't know where people keep getting the idea that that is our goal here. We would be creating a general page about the police force of Republic City as all the information regarding the police is currently piled on the Metalbending Police Force page, but that is just canonically incorrect as we already know that not all the members of the police force are metalbenders, so again, the new page would have nothing to do with Mako and what has been said about him becoming a cop, but just about creating a new general page about law enforcement in Republic City to be more correct with the information we already have from the first book.

@Zuqiu: Most people seem to be okay with a new general page, but perhaps we should still wait a bit to see if people have new concerns that have not been addressed yet. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 20:42, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. I am ok with a new page then, but is it needed?  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  22:45, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

It couldn't hurt to already start with it now, so it is completely up to standard when the new book airs. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 22:47, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Lady Lostris. The reason for the new page (or renaming?) shouldn't be Mako-centric due to him becoming a cop. Mako, if anything, was the catalyst for this discussion and not the topic itself. The page would be about the overall police force, not focusing exclusively on metalbenders. That being said, are we making another page or renaming the one we have?DancePowderer Talk 00:55, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

But what would be the difference in a new/renamed page if it was created/done now or later? Do you have any other information to add to the new/renamed page?  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  03:07, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to keep the page we have, rename it and then expand it to include other members of the police force. We have info such as their uniforms and some of the jobs they do.DancePowderer Talk 05:58, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with keeping the current page, but what would be the difference if we renamed it now or later, other than the fact that we don't really know anything different than what we know now.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  08:08, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to put this as clear as possible as it seems that there still is some confusion about that:

• We would be creating a new page -Law enforcement in Republic City (or something like that), we are not going to rename the Metalbending Police Force page as the metalbenders are a part of the police force, not the entire police force. We would be creating a page about the entire police force.
• The page would contain all the information we already have now about the police force but is currently places on the Metalbending Police Force page -which is not entirely correct as the metalbenders are just a part of the force and not the entire force.
• Links to and a small paragraph about the Metalbending Police Force, Tarrlok's task force, and perhaps the police headquarters will be given.
• Sections about the other uniforms and thus the other policemen would be made, which can be expanded later for when Mako joins.

The big advantage of creating the page now instead of later is that we would already be more factually correct then. Currently, the MPF page hosts same general information about the police force that does not really belong there. If we were to create the page now, that information could be moved to a more suiting page and that page could already be made up to standard instead of being thrown on the pile of newly created pages when the next book airs. We all know what a chaos that is then, so it seems to me that it would be more beneficial to do it now so that we can stay clear of the chaos later and can just expand an existing page with new information -which is easier- than create a whole new page about it. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 08:11, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with making the page now instead of later. We've been making updates to pages like Asami's in preparation for the next season, so we might as well do this while it's still fresh in our minds and avoid it getting caught up in the mad rush of page updating when the next season airs.DancePowderer Talk 16:00, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification LL. I support making the page now. That way we can be a little more prepared and don't have to worry about doing it later.  Technology Wizard  Wall  Contribs  18:08, July 21, 2012 (UTC)