|Forums: War Room → DISCORD|
Snake, Deadpool and Cobra Command Wiki Bureaucrat here,
What Avatar Wiki needs is a Discord. It's not hard at all to create one- infact after you name it "World of Avatar" all you'll need to do is go to it's settings and find the "widget" portion, copy/and insert into the Wiki source.
This War Room is a good beginning. With the DISCORD you have the indefinite ability to make/delete chat channels or voice channels, give members "roles", control their possibilities, PM them, have a multitude array of other DISCORDs to join- that you joined yourself & could invite members of the Avatar DISCORD to if you really wanted. You can also get a free BOT(several as well) implanted into the discord. It'll help with malcontrol. Play music by request (from youtube or however it looked for the cleanest version), command prompts, directions, and games.
You could have the four nations. Earth, Wind, Fire and Water. With, lets say, 3 text channels per each nation (for conversations, a War Room for each nation, pictures, excetra) as well as 3 voice channels per that nations, too. For meetings, music, or a lounge.
Above those nations the Avatar, or below them or find a place in between them. Maybe even an White Lotus area of commission. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SpecialOperationsTrooper (wall • contribs) 08:14 September 13, 2018
- We have had this discussion before, the result being that a discord was not needed for the wiki. I agree with the arguments posted there. Frui (🌹 • 🐝 • 🐝🐝) 10:28, September 13, 2018 (UTC)
- I also agree a new discussion wasn't needed but I still am in strong support of --if not discord-- some other kind of community-building structure/chat/something as I don't think the fall out of IRC, lack of comments, and disabling of anonymous contributors' correlation to the decline in wiki activity is in any way coincidental. I do think it's possible it has to do with the lack of content but the website has been fading in activity since around 2014 and one of its strongest years was 2011-- multiple years without any content. I know some people are of the opinion that community/social building activities drive away contributors though, and I respect that opinion, but felt I would voice my opposition regardless. Fire Ferret 07:37, September 14, 2018 (UTC)
- I sort of read-over the previous discussion about discord and I have to say that a lot of the reasons why people felt a discord wasn't needed are... inaccurate. For one, you don't have to install the widget on the wiki (if you don't like the aesthetic) to have a wiki discord (a simple perma-link can suffice), and for two I'm not sure how it would "exclude" anyone, unless they simply don't want to make a separate account. If you're worried about private channels/groups being established on Discord then... simply make all channels readable to every user. But anyway, the biggest thing with a discord is that, while it might not contribute to wiki activity, it wouldn't hurt it either. The wiki chat is hardly, if ever used, and so the greatest benefit a discord would provide is allow members to PM each other directly and immediately without the concern of every message wall thread and/or edit disagreement turning into a battle. It's direct communication, simply put, and I think that whatever we agree on (discord or no discord) measures should be taken to attain more community cohesion (aka, communication, especially between admins and normal editors). --"There goes Tokyo, yet again." —SCB (The chatty-chat section.) 00:35, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Well, I do agree with this. We had made an unofficial Avatar Wiki Discord and it was so depressing. It was the worst server I've ever been on because nobody used it. However, I would be willing to bet that if we had a Discord link to it on the wiki, more people would join, since there are users who mainly only read the wiki as opposed to editing it. Now, there is a reason I think Discord could be a good idea and that is that for the past few months if not year, I have seen only two different people enter the Special:Chat, and only once was I able to talk to said person. Chat allows you to send messages to a user, but it's kinda hard when you wanna send them a private message that doesn't disappear after you refresh the chat. I'll leave myself on "neutral" for now; let's see if this forum gets more attention. Tono555 02:28, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
Another thought is an Avatar Wiki Slack. Put up the link for anyone to join and it should be fairly straightforward. But, like I expressed in the previous forum, I do believe something is needed. Something has to change because Special:Chat in its current form is not helping foster a sense of community. I believe IRC succeded as a community builiding tool in spite of itself, not because of itself. With the state of our community, we need a new tool that will succeed as a community building tool; Slack and Discord are those. – Srijay K • TechFilmer 14:51, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- I am strongly against Slack. I've used it and I hate it. If we vote in favour of establishing another chat, I would vastly prefer discord to slack.
- That being said, Tono brings up a good point: there are other avatar discords. there are shipping discords. i am a moderator on one. and i just don't believe that implementing any kind of "avatar wiki" discord is the correct course of action. Given that historically the only active admin is Lostris, and I can't guarantee how long I'm going to be around here for, why would we implement another system that needs to be moderated. And they do need to be moderated because literally anyone with an account can log in and do whatever they want. it would return to the days of the trolling anonymous user, and i am not keen on revisiting that.
- yes, there is probably some hyperbole in that statement, but the fact is that this wiki's function is to be simply that: a place for people to contribute and read up about Avatar and LoK. Its primary function is *not* as a forum, message board, or social gathering, and i am strongly of the opinion that we have enough things that cater to those users who wish to use it for that. Frui (🌹 • 🐝 • 🐝🐝) 16:41, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Yes well you can't ignore the fact that people are already using forums and discussion boards to have arguments about their favorite characters, what their bending type, is, etc. Personally I think a discord would help cut down on that type of traffic because people (especially new users who don't stick around too long anyway) can do that sort of thing on chat, not on the wiki. With a chat you get (more) immediate responses to basic questions. As for moderating: this is the problem I keep bringing up. You admins think you have to do everything for the wiki, when what you need to do is delegate. There are respected, responsible users on Avatar wiki who can help with the burden of chat moderation should that be an issue: you don't need a head admin on discord all the time, especially since conversations are saved and public (and comments can be deleted after the fact). And so to reiterate what you said, Fruit, because the wiki is not primarily "a social gathering" discord would provide a way for there to be a social gathering (aka, a community that talks to each other) without sacrificing the "purpose of the wiki." --"There goes Tokyo, yet again." —SCB (The chatty-chat section.) 17:04, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- So why don't the users who want those things... use them? There are already discord servers around, already with users on them. In my opinion it is somewhat ironic that the thing you are fighting for has not been commented on by the very people it's supposed to be for: the forum users. Except for yourself, no other user has weighed in on this. Frui (🌹 • 🐝 • 🐝🐝) 17:13, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- See, that would be the point of an "official" Avatar wiki discord. People aren't going to use something if they don't know it's there, and if there was an AW chat we could actually promote it. Me and Tono are already on an Avatar discord (for the Spanish wiki), so "finding Avatar discord rooms" isn't the discussion at hand: the discussion at hand is making an Avatar wiki discord. --"There goes Tokyo, yet again." —SCB (The chatty-chat section.) 17:28, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- It is very easy to find different discords to use. As said above, and in the other thread: the point of this wiki is just that. A wiki. It's not a chat room. The wiki is *not primarily a social gathering* and I don't believe it ever should be. We don't *need* to "provide a way for there to be a social gathering" – we've already got that with the wiki chat and the forums. Frui (🌹 • 🐝 • 🐝🐝) 17:35, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
Again, if the best argument for why we need a Discord server is 'it allows you to have conversations off the wiki', my biggest question remains why this wiki should be promoting that? Why should we invest time, effort, and space into a feature that you never even need to visit the wiki to access? Not in the last place because you need a seperate account to use it, which I still believe should end the discussion right there.
The only thing mentioned that actually holds up as an objective quality in Discord's favor over the two chatservices we already have on this wiki in-house, is increased mobile access, which isn't much. And even then, I have that app, it's buggy, unstable, notifications only work when the planets align, and it feels like it was designed in five minutes by someone with only a vague understanding of coding.
Something that I feel kind of flew under the radar last time we had this discussion (which wasn't that long ago, to be very honest) is something Thailog mentioned: it would be busy there for a month, maybe two, because it's nice and novel, which is exactly what happened with that unofficial chat Tono mentioned, and then it would die once the novelty wears off.
In my memory, those were the most important arguments thrown around that didn't boil down to personal preference, which a vast majority of them did. So without wishing to repeat that whole thread, my mind hasn't changed on that matter, I still don't think we have either need for or would benefit from making a Discord server for this wiki. AvatarAang7 (My wall - My fanon) 18:18, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- I understand that the wiki is not intended for socialization, but I think the correlation with social features being removed and user decline is not a coincidence. It's easier to get invested and come back and care about a community when there are active places that encourage discussion and are easily accessible. It doesn't need to be discord. Honestly I feel that the blame falls square on wikia because the built in special:chat lacks a lot of useful features that other alternatives have, and they disabled anonymous users, which are two ways people are led onto the wiki. (Not to mention some additional changes most people here disagree with, such as article videos).
- I know other people disagree with me, and feel like social alternatives like IRC are what caused the decline in activity but I disagree. IRC has been here for years while people were here, if anything drop off in on wiki activity and drop off in IRC activity were around the same time as each other. I think that the vehement opposition to any kind of socialization on the wiki isn't constructive to creating an environment which has constant activity and has users that continue to return to edit. I don't know if discord would hurt the community more or fix it further, but I do think there is a discussion to be had about the merits of creating something that could draw in new members.
- A year ago when I proposed discord I was thinking something along these lines but I now feel like that isn't something that's enough. A discord server isn't likely to be discovered by new members unless they already have a reason to log on and look for other means of communication. I'm not opposed to the creation of discord, but I do think to accomplish this goal there are better courses of action to take. Fire Ferret 23:34, September 15, 2018 (UTC)
- It might not be a coincidence, but I think you're confusing causation with correlation here. The primary reason activity has been declining on the wiki is simply that the shows ended. There was lots of activity on the wiki before the chat came in, also by lots of people who weren't regulars on the IRC, but that was because there was always more work to be done on the wiki. Transcripts, characters, fights, et cetera. Like I said, a Discord server might liven up things for a month or two, but then we'd be right back where we started. Unfortunately, the reality of things is that we only have the comics coming out, at a fairly unsteady pace, I might add, and those just don't have the same kind of reach that the shows did. So unless we're going to get a new show, or perhaps a movie that doesn't suck ass, I don't see how adding gimmicks like Discord would help beyond the momentary. AvatarAang7 (My wall - My fanon) 08:37, September 16, 2018 (UTC)
- I'm in favor, & while I could spend all day arguing the various points brought up, I think what it comes down to is that no amount of complaints about a new system will make the current system any better. If you want to say that the site is just destined to be on the decline because the show is over & the live action probably won't liven things up for very long either, fine. That seems defeatist to me, & barely any different from just declaring the site a dead end, but if that's the way you see it, I can't imagine what you have to lose. Literally the worst case scenario is that things will keep going as they are. And I don't get the notion that it's some huge investment--start a server, find someone who wants to manage it, throw up some links on the wiki.Neo Bahamut (wall • contribs) 21:46, September 20, 2018 (UTC)
- Going off of that, at the very least I think we could do a discord test run. AA7 mentioned something like that had been done before here but it doesn't seem to have happened in recent memory. Anyway, set it up a server for a week, see how moderation/channels and the like would work, etc., and then at the end of that "test run" we could decide if it's something that we want to replace wiki chat. Also, if we don't want to replace the wiki chat feature, we could cut ties with the IRC and replace that with a discord, is how I see it."There goes Tokyo, yet again." —SCB (The chatty-chat section.) 19:09, September 21, 2018 (UTC)
I can't see any real consensus either way in this forum, but it is not exactly clear what those that support having a discord server want to implement. There does not need to be consensus to create the server itself, that can be done by anyone that wants to. The discussion, at least in my view, is on exactly how integrated the server should be with the wiki. To that end, I think there are 3 levels:
- Full integration of the server with the wiki
- The new server would effectively replace the existing chat and be fully promoted on the wiki. New users would be prompted (though of course not required) to join, pages mentioning the chat would switch to the server, a discord box would be added to the site (somewhere) and so on.
- Promotion of the server by the wiki but without full integration
- The wiki promotes the discord server, but it does not replace the chat and no discord box is added to the site. The wiki promotes both the chat and discord to users as places to converse
- The wiki does not integrate or promote the server in any manner
- Effectively, the wiki treats the server as entirely separate and does not promote it at all. For conversing with other users, the chat is suggested (though users themselves are free to suggest the server to other users if they wish)
Feel free to make suggestions if I have missed anything or mis-stated something. My own view is that No. 2 (promotion without integration) would be the best middle ground; it would help generate activity for the server which I think would lead to more activity on the wiki, and I have seen this level of integration on other communities and it seems to work quite well. I will admit however that I have little experience using chat or discord, so my views either way are very limited. HAMMEROFTHOR 13:12, September 29, 2018 (UTC)
- I would also go with No. 2, per both HoT and Neo Bahamut. Couldn't have said it better myself. --AvatarRokus Ghost (Message me • Read my fanon) 02:47, September 30, 2018 (UTC)
- I completely fail to see why we are having this discussion again. Nothing has changed since the last time we did this, so I completely stand by what I said in the previous discussion. As opposed to promoting a new chat venue, find a way to promote the one we currently have. I am against having any link to anywhere that isn't on this wiki connected to this community, especially if that means that just anyone without an account on the wiki can waltz into that chatroom. Lady Lostris vstf (talk • HotN) 11:50, October 5, 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with Lostris, and I can actually go one better: you would never even need to visit the wiki to access it. All you would need is an invitation from someone already in there, and boom, you're in. Disregarding that, no arguments have been made here that weren't made a year ago, and nothing else has changed. The Discord mobile app is still buggy and badly designed, and the in-house chat we already have is still functionally the same and in no need of replacement. I'm sticking with 'don't do it at all'. AvatarAang7 (My wall - My fanon) 14:57, October 5, 2018 (UTC)