All posts by UnchainedDragon25

Whitehorse24, I doubt Ozai had anyone try to assassinate him. Not only was he THE most powerful firebender in the world, he also had his hand around the nation's throat due to his extreme propaganda campaigns that had him all but worshiped as a god.

Bastion2.0, I do agree with you that Avatar does half-ass some of the political plots. This comes down to the inherent limitations due to who the series is marketed by, the target demographic, and the kinds of stories that have enough action to keep the audience's attention. A more cerebral political drama is what would satisfy your desire for more realistic politics. It would be nice to have some more details about Zuko's reign.

For example, I'd love to see if people freaked out or protested when Zuko extended royal status to Kiyi, even though she's his maternal half-sister with no direct blood ties to the royal family. I bet it pissed off more than a few people.

I don't have access to Disney+ to watch Andor since my brother canceled his subscription and I have to budget the streaming services I pay for based on what shows my wife and I prioritize.

@Bastion2.0 , you do present a very hard position to counter with this one. But that's what I enjoy about our discussions: you force me to think things through in a civilized manner.

I think that you do a great job of summarizing the biggest impediments to Zuko's early reign:

1. His former status as a traitor and terrorist.

2. The extreme degree of indoctrination that his people have been subject to for at least five or six entire entire generations.

3. The very radicalized reforms he intended to implement.

4. The stark change in the status quo.

These are all extremely valid points. And Zuko was known to struggle immensely during the first year of his reign, as evidenced in The Promise Trilogy. He even had to have his room relocated in the palace to ensure his safety due to the multiple assassination attempts.

Ukano's New Ozai/Safe Nation Society was a pretty obvious example of the holdouts who remained loyal to the previous regime. And the fact that Mai's dad was also a nobleman who lost his political power to Zuko's regime when he refused to follow up on Zuko's reforms and edicts would motivate just about anyone in his position into starting some sort of rebellion.

But I have to reiterate one of my original points: because Zuko legitimately claimed the throne and through a means that is in line with the then-current national identity and traditions of his country, Zuko would most likely be seen as the rightful ruler by a considerable portion of his people.

And the fact that Azula banished nearly all of her staff, advisors, and most likely a fair number of her generals, I can't imagine that many of them would feel much loyalty to the old regime due to the fact that their previous ruler left such a demonstrably unstable heir in charge while he lead a scorched earth campaign across the sea. They would more likely to follow Zuko than Azula due to the fact that he's not an unstable, paranoid lunatic who would be very likely to strip them of everything the minute they disagreed with her.

Zuko's reforms and change in the direction of his nation may have been counter to the 100+ years of a more imperialistic culture, but Zuko would be far more likely to incentivize their cooperation through negotiation or promotion than Azula, who would have either banished or incinerated any dissenters. And while he did strip Ukano of his governorship, he did not imprison, banish, or physically harm the man. Zuko is more than capable of standing his ground politically, but he is not incapable of compromise. After all, he did not strip Ukano of anything but his leadership position. Ukano still came from a rich noble family. Zuko was fine with allowing the man to keep his accumulated resources and did not press the man further until the conclusion of Smoke and Shadow. This is a move that I imagine he replicated several times over. It's far easier to keep a nation stable by slowly shifting the status quo with a few conditions attached. And considering the direction he was taking the Fire Nation, I'm guessing that many of the higher ups were counting themselves lucky that he wasn't more punitive in his responses to resistance to his reign.

And Zuko's fight for the right to have the oldest colonies in the Earth Kingdom remain would have been seen as a commitment to his people and earned him considerable loyalty from the public.

Mind you, Zuko's reforms never reached their intended conclusion for the entirety of his nation.

As far as the culture of imperialism and ruthless social climbing was concerned, we did get to see that in Ashes of the Academy. And we also got to see how rough it was for Zuko to get his educational and cultural reforms through. Hiring his ex to work as a teacher and agent of his on the inside was easily one of Zuko's smartest moves politically. After all, Mai knew firsthand from her time at the same school and from her experiences with Azula how toxic the culture of imperialism was. And while slow to get going, we got to see how effective she was at the change in direction. As with the case of the headmistress, Shihan, we saw how damaging the previous regime was even to those who taught it. Mai citing Azula as the natural conclusion of that system was enough to wake up the repressed headmistress and turn her against her predecessor and de facto foster mother.

The dark and destructive legacy of Azula and her brief reign over the Capitol would have been a pretty drastic motivator to get people to follow Zuko.

I'm not saying that any of this would have been easy. And honestly, I agree with you wholeheartedly that a bit more of a look at the difficulties faced by Zuko in the early days of his reign would have helped to support the idea of him being able to largely successfully transition his nation away from their warmongering past. Hopefully we'll get to see some of that when the new movie hits theaters early next year.

It's a damn shame we saw nothing of the Fire Nation in The Legend of Korra. It would have been fascinating to see the Fire Nation 70+ years post-war.

Anastasia Cousins, the Fire Sages themselves were separate from the state before Sozin and were later restored to their independence from the throne by Zuko. I think that the Earth Sages would be best established as an independent organization not regulated by the Earth Kingdom.

Anastasia Cousins, re-forming them at this point would allow for a chance that they could be more spiritually and religiously focused than they were. The line of sages is largely broken, and starting over from scratch would make for a cleaner slate for a new generation of sages. And yes, that comment about a clean slate was a pun.

Bastion2.0, I think the river village is a good example of how easily the majority of the Fire Nation's peasantry would be able to be turned against the regimes of Sozin through Ozai. When people's basic needs are actually provided for them, they're easily turned against authoritarians whose only real hold over them is violence and a cult of personality. Nationalistic propaganda can only do so much to keep people loyal.

I imagine that Zuko would be very popular as a ruler with the younger generations of Fire Nationals who had yet to be fully indoctrinated. In addition to that, Zuko's many reforms aimed at increasing the personal liberties of his own people would prove to be highly motivating for people to support his reign.

Any authoritarian regime begins through conquering its own people before attempting to conquer other nations. But that does not always guarantee a lack of dissent even over a long period of time. Countercultural movements have always been able to survive in the shadows. It is inherently human nature to chafe at restraints and to seek greater agency in the world.

I also think that Zuko's greater control over his anger and lack of domineering personality would be well-received by his ministers, as Zuko is far more open to listening to reason than his father ever was. General Shinu is one such official that I think would be likely to support Zuko due to his own commitment to the principles of pragmatic action over the more extreme actions taken for the sake of vanity by Zhao, Ozai, and Azula.

And Zuko would likely also prove popular with the more religious members of his nation after his reforms to the Fire Sages and appointing Shyu - the sage that assisted Team Avatar at the Fire Temple in book 1 - as their leader. Real-world politics have proven the importance of being supported by religious authorities when it comes to the development of any reign or regime and its subsequent acceptance by the populace.

And Zuko's own focus on restoring more expressive aspects of Fire Nation culture that have less to do with the Royal Family would also be a contributing factor to a less tumultuous first few years on the throne.

Zuko understands his own people very well, but he also has learned many things that were hidden or otherwise repressed regarding the true nature and traditions of his people. By restoring those lessons and traditions, he effectively freed his own people, and thus would prove a fairly supported ruler in his early years.

However, his reforms would obviously not be complete or total within his own reign, as evidenced by the regressive cult on Penquan Island, where his father was still venerated even more than 70 years after the war. Regressive holdouts like those in remote regions are inevitable, as it is rare that any centralized government, no matter how effective it is, would be able to sway the entirety of their population away from the delusions of grandeur that have firmly taken root within their nation.

Bastion2.0, I see your point. However, there are hints that not every citizen is as loyal to Ozai as it would seem at first glance. When Aang was running like the wind to the herbalist institute in The Blue Spirit, one of the two soldiers discussing Aang's abilities call the claims a bunch of Fire Lord propaganda in a pretty dissatisfied tone.

Additionally, the further from the Capitol the citizens are, the less they appear to benefit from the war itself. The river village in The Painted Lady is just one example of how the citizens themselves were exploited and directly harmed by Ozai and the war itself.

But the GoT comparison is fair considering the level of dysfunctionality in the Fire Nation Royal Family.

Bastion2.0, I can see that being a very distinct possibility. On the other hand, I also see many Fire Nationals being accepting of Zuko's reign due to the fact that the throne was up for grabs in the Agni Kai. Since Azula violated the rules of the duel, Zuko was legitimately crowned Fire Lord. While many people may have been loyal to Ozai, I feel that even more would be loyal to their nation's laws and customs before him.

It would certainly help with the distinct lack of spirituality in their nation.

S1LLYC4T33333, my pleasure. I come from a complex background, so I've spent a considerable amount of time on the subject of etymology.

I would recommend trying to look up basic names in a variety of languages and cultures in the real-world. For example, the name Bold means iron in Mongolian, which would be very suitable for a strong or fierce character, particularly if they were a firebender or earthbender. And considering that there is Mongolian influenced culture in the Earth Kingdom, this would be a good example of where to apply naming conventions. I'd recommend sticking to various Indigenous American cultures for Water Tribe names.

Bastion2.0, additionally, it would make sense that Korra would be a highly recognizable Avatar in the world as a whole simply due to the technological revolution that would make the spread of information easier to achieve on a grand scale, such as photography, the radio, and more.

Not a single one. They all had their merit.

Bastion2.0, Aang was far from flawless. His self-doubt and anxiety caused him to abandon his duty to the world, he lied to the people he cared about, nearly blew his cover crossing into the Fire Nation, and he impulsively tried to master the Avatar State before he was ready. Aang pulled a LOT of stupid stunts over the course of his adventures. Does trying to ride the unagi ring any bells for anyone? Trying to wrangle that oversized plate of sashimi just to show off for his fangirls was easily one of the dumbest things that Aang did in the entire series.

Bastion2.0, was never much a Naruto fan but I get what you're saying. Zaofu is easily my second-favorite city in the series, coming in just behind Omashu. And frankly, those two cities have more than just the coolest architecture in the Earth Kingdom. They have the best of what their nation offers in terms of clothing. From the vaguely Chinese/Islamic look of Omashu to Zaofu's more modern clothes and robes. The only issue I'd have with Zaofu is wearing metal jewelry in a city full of metalbenders who could strangle me, disembowel me, or impale me on a whim using my own accessories.

Lmcarth, I have to agree with you there. My second choice would be Earth Kingdom since I've got green eyes and I'm a blond Asian, so I'd naturally look good in yellow and green.

She was never a bad mother. Not only did she have practically no power in her marriage whatsoever, she had to deal with Ozai constantly overriding all of her attempts to be a good parent and instill a solid moral foundation in their children.

I think that she is a thoroughly traumatized woman who made the best of a god awful situation and was always willing to throw herself into harm's way to protect her children.

Bastion2.0, and honestly, I just look damn good in black and red. The Fire Nation's fashion was specifically made to deal with the extreme humidity of their environment, which just looks crazy levels of comfortable.