<p>Yeah...being Christian isn't a justification (some Christians <i>are</i> queer, and all too often end up having crises of faith over churches or family members who are shitty about it; but I digress).  And being <i>straight</i> is even <i>less</i> of one.  </p><p>Mind you, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; by my observations, you don't seem to use your bias and/or discomfort as an excuse either to play toxic critic, or to start frantically "martyrbating" when contradicted.  But even so. </p>

<div class="quote"><i>Deist Zealot wrote:
Yeah...being Christian isn't a justification (some Christians <i>are</i> queer, and all too often end up having crises of faith over churches or family members who are shitty about it; but I digress).  And being <i>straight</i> is even <i>less</i> of one.  <p>Mind you, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; by my observations, you don't seem to use your bias and/or discomfort as an excuse either to play toxic critic, or to start frantically "martyrbating" when contradicted.  But even so. </p> </i></div>
<p>I'm not using my Christionailty as an excuse or justification, I'm just saying Christains believe a certain thing and LGBTQ is not one of them. You're right about straight tho, it isn't a justification. I don't use my bias/discomfort to be a rude dickhole to anyone. Just because you aren't straight it doesn't mean you're a jerk or  a bad person </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Blur123 wrote: </p> <div class=I'm just saying Christains believe a certain thing and LGBTQ is not one of them. You're right about straight tho, it isn't a justification.</i></div>
<p>Dude, there's sooooo many denominations/interpretations of <i>any</i> given belief system that you can find the most devout people being pro/anti <i>anything.</i> </p><p>Ex. Turkish coffee. So strong it's been seen as a substitute for alcohol, was declared an intoxicant, thus haram/"a no-no" until an Islamic scholar argued it being a stimulant meant it'd be <i>good</i> for focusing on being holy and the like. </p><p>@Neo: </p><p>Ok, I admit I gleaned through some things in my last post, but here's some followups: </p>

• I'm not saying Aiwei <i>necessarily</i> is gay/any other orientation, but it's food for thought of whether his sexuality had anything to do with his motivation(s) to join the Red Lotus or whatever, especially we <i>only</i> know about Zaheer, P'Li and Unalaq's motivations for joining.

• I'm not saying Korra would <i>only/primarily</i> punch out homophobes, but I could see her defending a pride march and maybe coming to blows with a bigot, especially if he's a deep closet case (gay!Amon basically) or has a queer son or something. Besides the marching, a lot of research/fact-finding could be done within the story to discover more than Cheap Heat reasons for certain beliefs considering the Fire Nation <i>already</i> had rewrite history on a number of occasions.

• My problem(s) of why the thing with Korra's parents happening in 3 instead of 1 is Doylism, (no good <i>internal</i> reason for Korra not to just turn around) and again, DiMartino wants to have Gayngst yet not risk good characters looking bad, so Korra and Asami storm out their house and promise to be there for each other <i>like</i> the parents have kicked her out when that's CLEARLY not the case, so it's a Conflict Ball.

• I'm <i>not</i> saying it's implausible for Sozin's cheap heat, (again, this is a guy that has always done it <i>all</i> for the Evulz like dragon-slaying and making Agni Kais dangerous,) but there's yet to be specifics beyond "because I'm an evil prick" same way Ozai was one-dimensionally evil and looked cartoonish compared to Korra's villains.

• Korra's supposed to have matured by Book 4 to not be so impulsive and not lose her cool yet the outbursts at her parents and snapping at Asami over "practical," plus the "I didn't think this through" after her speech feel more impulsive and short-sighted like Book 1-2!Korra and again for the sake of Doylism on DiMartino's part, so I'm sticking by that one. Her outrage at Jargala and Tokuga are understandable though in kidnapping/threatening her girlfriend though Asami getting damseled twice already gives me mixed feelings between "Asami's getting chickified again like Book 2" and "Well she's a non-bender so it's more plausible."

• I get what you mean about entrenched homophobia, but at the same time, Bryke <i>want</i> to dip their collective toe in there, so they might as well do it more thoroughly/plausibly given this world already <i>does</i> have it's own takes on the various isms even if they're not 1:1 with the real world. It's just eye-rolling/backwards to me that they Black-and-Whited it instead of ideas like Earth Kingdom once having a Spartan/Wakashudo-type system, so that the peasants became homophobic because they view homosexuality as not effeminate, but elitist and power-hungry while the Fire Nation (or at least a part of it) view same-sex relations as more sophisticated/intimate to the point that some lesbians (I wanna call 'em "Emberettes" or something) not only fully accept Korrasami, but think them dating <i>Mako</i> was like an inverted "Gay Until Graduation" thing. Book 1 <i>really</i> didn't go as thoroughly as it did with the bender/non-bender thing IMHO. I mean I even wrote a thing like a year or two ago where I wrote all the reasons why homophobia wouldn't/shouldn't be a thing and that Korra and Asami would be normalized, but Bryke was like, "Noooo, we want to relate to our LGBT audience, so homophobia exists," but decided to be slap-dash in basing the views on elemental mentalities regardless of past canon so here we are.

<div class="quote"><i>Dude, there's sooooo many denominations/interpretations of any given belief system that you can find the most devout people being pro/anti anything.</i></div>
<p>Yes, it's true that Christians as a demographic are on average less likely to be supportive of homosexuality, but there are still plenty who are, or are even "practicing homosexuals" themseleves, to borrow a phrase I don't particularly like. I don't really see that as any less compatible than eating shellfish, not stoning adulterers, or any of the other ways modern Christians don't listen to the Old Testament. </p> <div class="quote"><i>I'm not saying Aiwei necessarily is gay/any other orientation, but it's food for thought of whether his sexuality had anything to do with his motivation(s) to join the Red Lotus or whatever, especially we only know about Zaheer, P'Li and Unalaq's motivations for joining.</i></div>
<p>I guess. </p> <div class="quote"><i>I'm not saying Korra would only/primarily punch out homophobes, but I could see her defending a pride march and maybe coming to blows with a bigot, especially if he's a deep closet case (gay!Amon basically) or has a queer son or something.</i></div>
<p>Eh, I dunno. Maybe it would make sense to have her appear at a march & give a speech or something if it fits into the plot somewhere, but Korra vs. the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. Even though it would be funny briefly. </p> <div class="quote"><i>My problem(s) of why the thing with Korra's parents happening in 3 instead of 1 is Doylism, (no good internal reason for Korra not to just turn around)</i></div>
<p>I wouldn't. I'm already a ways away from the house & shit is awkward right now, sounds like the perfect time to avoid the problem & put it off until later. </p> <div class="quote"><i>Korra's supposed to have matured by Book 4 to not be so impulsive and not lose her cool</i></div>
<p>Not really, she's always going to have a certain degree of impulsivity & trigger temper, that's just part of her nature. She just becomes better at handling problems in a larger variety of ways. It makes a lot of sense that she would have a strong reaction toward something that's a sensitive issue to her. Think of it like how Aang broadens his views on how to fight, but there are still things he refuses to do, because that's just his personality & values. </p> <div class="quote"><i>I get what you mean about entrenched homophobia, but at the same time, Bryke want to dip their collective toe in there, so they might as well do it more thoroughly/plausibly given this world already does have it's own takes on the various isms even if they're not 1:1 with the real world.</i></div>
<p>I think it's fine as historical context, & also this is a level of complexity that wouldn't really be practical considering the nature of the plot, or the way we were introduced to this information. </p><p>Other than that, it's not so much that I don't see your complaints, it's that they seem to me like very minor things. Sort of like how Combustion Man didn't have any lines in <i>Book 3: Fire</i>. It's true that we don't know a lot about him, but it didn't really hurt anything, so why hold it against the story? At least, that's how I view it. </p>

<p><i>Do</i> we really know about Zaheer's or Unalaq's actual motivations for joining the Red Lotus?  Because the only backstory detail I remember from Zaheer was about him getting Ideas™ <i>as a new initiate</i> into the society (meaning <i>after</i> he joined). </p><p>Now, P'Li is another matter.  Even so: that detail was apparently just revealed in order to give an otherwise inchoate character some last-minute antivillain cred. </p>

<p>Maybe a little off topic, but what do you think about  "Imbalance Part 1" in the categories "LGBT" on Amazon ?
How do you think, it's Amazon  mistake , or they know in advance about the content in future product ? </p>

<p>Combustion Man's not really a good example because he's clearly a merc obviously doing it first for money and then for pride, so there's nowhere near as much food-for-thought on his backstory/mindset. The Red Lotus on the other hand are <i>ideologically/fanatically</i> motivated to do what they do (ex. Zaheer takes no credit for killing the Earth Queen) ala Islamic terrorists rather than hired guns or bank robbers, so just like questions about their numbers, influence, bending techniques etc., it's a perfectly understandable question about what motivates each of them especially when their initial plan was releasing the God of Evil for the sake of "balance" <i>and</i> they each kept mum for all the time they were locked up despite being interrogated. I'm not saying we <i>need</i> whole episodes or something dedicated to each's beliefs, but even a one-off line like P'Li being a former weapon to a warlord gives some context about their hatred for the system(s) in place, plus fleshes them out. </p>

• All we ever knew of Aiwei was that he was a middle-aged man that had been a mole for the RL so long and so deeply undercover that he was "like family" to Su and living a cushy life as her second-in-command and the lynchpin to their security yet he still believed in their cause, but at the same time, was expendable considering he experienced a <i>far</i> worse death than the EQ considering that while his body will eventually die (pity the hotel staff that finds <i>that!</i>) his soul's gonna be no different than Zhao('s). Besides the bigotry, the Earth Kingdom's also known for being secretive, here's a Living Lie Detector, <i>plus</i> he's a fugitive from there, (unless his fugitive status was due to betraying Zaofu though it still could be both considering how Su likes "strays,") but we don't know jack as far as details. It wouldn't just flesh out his brief character, it'd be world-building whether or not, (but especially "whether") this was tied to their bigotry.

• Ghazan, an <i>earthbender</i> not only (ostensibly) kept his head out on an artificial island out in the middle of nowhere, but the dude was working out like Iroh without a similar escape plan yet at the same time, <i>snapped</i> at the thought of returning to prison to the point of suicide/kamikaze. Was his presuming Ming-Hua to be dead what set him off? Did the presumed sister Bolin guessed play a role in his joining the RL like Grisha's in "Attack on Titan" and/or did he do time in an Earth Kingdom prison before joining the RL that fostered his hatred of the system?

• And lastly, Ming-Hua, who we know's crazy, but was she a true believer in the cause, a Psycho-For-Hire that went along for the fun of it or some degree of both?

<p>I'm reminded of the BET Black Panther cartoon from a while back where the villain group are not only multi-national (and represent different colonial powers in Africa,) but also have different motives for why they're there. Black Knight genuinely (and <i>ridiculously</i>) believes he's on a holy mission and that <i>Wakanda</i> is full of "savages," Klaw wants the vibranium, Radioactive Man is part-prisoner/part psycho-for-hire, Batroc is also a mercenary though an honorable one that has no illusions about why he's there and Juggernaut's another psycho that just wants to run wild and maybe get paid, too. </p><p>Back to Korra's tiff with her parents, Except Asami's <i>already</i> calmed her down and they <i>don't</i> give any implication that Korra's going to go back and resolve that issue <i>especially</i> during the talk with Kya and it's <i>completely</i> not talked about in Part 2, so again, it's purely because of Doylism that we know when that issue will be resolved and again, only because of DiMartino's writing habits. Specifically, I'm reminded of the mess in Book 1 where Bryke not only forgot to make at least Mako feel guilty around Asami for cheating on her (even during their hug later in the same ep,) and then when she finally calls him out on it, it's dragged out further purely for drama's sake rather than any <i>internal</i> reason, especially one that would make him sympathetic and making Mako Unintentionally Unsympathetic at the same time since he both knows he's pissed at her yet doesn't seem conflicted about it (with Book 2-3 fixing that). </p><p>And again, I know what you're saying about Korra's character and I stated that I excused <i>some</i> outbursts, <i>but</i> Book 3 and eventually/especially 4 was supposed to be the turning point in Korra's maturity in that she <i>wouldn't</i> be having these childish tantrums (i.e. her outburst at Katara's played dramatically at her frustration) to the extent detractors (ex. Foxie) claiming she'd been "tamed," so it feels part-pleasing those fans who want the "old boisterous, short-fuse" Korra back and part-making a simpler story considering Tokuga's so far been as straight-evil as Ozai rather than Amon. </p><p>What I'm saying in general is just like how "The Headband" showed otherwise good, decent kids being indoctrinated by revisionist history (i.e. "Airbender Army") or even the Rashomon thing between the clans in "The Great Divide" (I know, I know,) it wouldn't be a stretch for Korra and co. to do a history trip to counter a present-day bigot claiming history being on their side w/o deliberately hiding the truth or a conspiracy to hide pro-queer history because it's profitable, so we'd find out Oma and Shu were actually same-sex, a General's failure in combat was spun/blamed on him being gay, Kyoshi having a girlfriend in a similar dynamic as Korra and Asami, research on other past Avatars being queer in some form or another OR The Avatar being potentially bi/pan by default due to being attracted to whoever has the most balanced/harmonious dynamic with them, etc. </p><p>Overall, I'm scrutinizing as much as I am because this franchise was/has been so enlightening and influential to me as a writer that praises/defends some things (deconstructions, themes, heterosexism, how the franchise was essentially pre-Tumblr in inclusion yet trolls didn't care until Korrasami,) while criticizing others (Bryke's writing habits in a nutshell), plus I HATE wasted potential in storytelling/characterization, which is why I've praised/defended them for going as hard as they did in some areas (Korrasami, Korra's PTSD, Well-Intentioned Extremist villains,) but banged my head at others (focusing on Mako when Asami made more narrative sense as a deuteragonist in <i>every</i> season/book series, too much Varrick, basically my Book 2 spiel). </p><p>@Deist He <i>was</i> disillusioned into what the OWL had become (basically The Avatar's Secret Service) instead of what it used to be (beholden to no government but themselves,) so it wouldn't be a stretch that he did his homework and found the RL more his liking <i>then</i> got Ideas with Unalaq. And even though P'Li's backstory was a Doylist thing to make death more meaningful, (still better than how "The Walking Dead" does it,) it still gave context to their relationship and motivations, (steeling Zaheer's in his case,) so better that than nothing. </p><p>@LanoBeniko I just noticed that, too. It <i>might</i> be a head's-up as part of Bryke being more inclusive/world-building, but I wouldn't want anyone to get their hopes up to earlier especially if it's just a glitch, so maybe it's best to wait until there's at least an interview or something. </p>

<div class="quote"><i>O-kei Dou-kei wrote:
And lastly, Ming-Hua, who we know's crazy, but was she a true believer in the cause, a Psycho-For-Hire that went along for the fun of it or some degree of both?</i></div>
<p>I...really don't get why people think that Ming-Hua was any more "crazy" or sadistic than the other three?  (Note that all of them were fanatics; and all of them had spent over a decade in solitary confinement; neither says much about their stability; and in the case of the others, you can respectively add bulletproof rationalization, probable PTSD, and...<i>whatever</i> the hell causes someone to snap and commit suicide when cornered on top of that.)  She had a body count of <i>one</i> that we saw (by contrast: Zaheer and P'Li had at least six each—two of whom were named characters—and Ghazan had a minimum of three), occasionally incapacitated foes when killing or seriously injuring them would have been easier, and actually somewhat empathized with her guards despite being in the worst cell of the lot.  </p><p>I mean, yes, she <i>did</i> have a penchant for brutal intimidation tactics (and grinning like a shark in battle).  Keep in mind that she was visibly disabled, she was <i>tiny</i>, and (if we go by Eugene Lee's mostly-canon picture of those jerkbenders in their younger days), she was <i>pretty</i> before thirteen years in the throat of a volcano took its toll on her.  (I mean, not that <i>P'Li</i> wasn't ungodly hawt.  She was also a large scary combustionbender; that would make it a lot <i>less</i> likely, in her case, for anyone to mistake "ungodly hawt" for "vulnerable.")  Any single <i>one</i> of those, much less all three of the above, would be easy to mistake for vulnerability. </p><p>All-in-all: it seemed less like she was any more unstable, or less antivillainous, than the other three than like she was a shadow archetype of Toph with the aggression cranked up.  And I'm fairly sure she was just as loyal as the other three; she'd have had the most to gain by selling the others out if she'd just been in it to raise hell, and didn't seem the sort who could readily be <i>intimidated</i> into keeping quiet. </p> <div class="quote"><i>@Deist He was disillusioned into what the OWL had become (basically The Avatar's Secret Service) instead of what it used to be (beholden to no government but themselves,) so it wouldn't be a stretch that he did his homework and found the RL more his liking then got Ideas with Unalaq.</i></div>
<p>That was Xai Bau (the founder of the Red Lotus), not Zaheer. I mean, Zaheer clearly <i>agreed</i> with him (hell, clearly <i>idolized</i> the guy nearly as much as he did Guru Laghima); still, he was talking about why Xai Bau founded the society in the first place, not why he himself joined. </p> <div class="quote"><i>And even though P'Li's backstory was a Doylist thing to make death more meaningful, (still better than how "The Walking Dead" does it,) it still gave context to their relationship and motivations, (steeling Zaheer's in his case,) so better that than nothing.</i></div>
<p>I agree that it was better than nothing. </p>

<p>On Kyoshi wiki is says she is a gay. Umm where did this information come from, as far as i know in the avatar the last airbender there is no information that points to this. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Junoqueenofjamaa wrote: On Kyoshi wiki is says she is a gay. Umm where did this information come from, as far as i know in the avatar the last airbender there is no information that points to this. </p> </i></div>
<p>She's actually bi. It was revealed in Turf Wars Part 1. </p>