My Opinion on Korra X Asami, the Ending, and Pairings

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Gdamon·1/27/2015

@ Love Robin I have no real problems with Kuvira giving up, the problem I mainly have is how her back-story was never important. They mentioned that she was an orphan one time, and it causes her to step down Likewise, Bataar Jr switching sides isn’t an issue. A little predictable, but nevertheless I have no problem with it Her massive army for all we know didn’t fully disband. They still have the technology and resources. We saw some of them stand down, but I find it hard to believe they all would willingly give up The Slave Labor and Racism was never shown. And that’s more of an issue than anything for me, because it feels like Bryke was just adding more conflict for the sake of having conflict I never implied Wu keeps me up at night. In fact after thinking about it, having an Earth Republic makes sense because majority hated Hou Ting’s reign. I’m pretty sure he was King by the end of the series, so until he formally gives up the throne that wasn’t resolved About the Swamp, it apparently caused Republic City’s spirit wilds to go crazy for some reason. Not only did we get no explanation, but the episode nor did the finale resolve the conflict. All we know is Korra used spirit powers to release everyone who was captured. I suppose the logical assumption is the Vines calmed down after they had time to grow back, but it still felt like a random conflict I’m not asking for them to spell out EVERYTHING I’ve been following the franchise since forever, and whether or not the writing has leveled up is up to debate. Majority of the villains are better, the style is much more modern, and I’d even consider it even to the original series. I just wanted to voice my thoughts about the finale and everything else @ Weltall8000 
Wu never formally stepped down. It’s like Book 1 ending with Tenzin declaring that non-benders would get a voice. The Prisoner’s I’m talking about are from her re-education camp, but now that I think about it we probably don’t have time for that You’re probably correct about the conflict being solved with Kuvira being arrested, but it didn’t feel like an ending because we never saw the future of the Earth Kingdom. Her army is presumable arrested, everyone who got captured was probably rescued at some point, and the Spirit Vines are more than likely calm now The problem is instead of treating it like a real conclusion to an overall conflict, we skipped ahead so that Korra and Asami could go on a vacation I acknowledge that Azula’s insanity was never resolved in the series, but my other point that she had no power anymore is still correct. The most important thing was that Azula wasn’t going to be the Fire Lord, and the only reason I’m not complaining is because - Its going to be resolved in the Comics - Her defeat is satisfying to me, despite the fact that I’m a major Azula fan The Fire Nation Military is loyal to the Fire Nation, while the Earth Empire is loyal to Kuvira. Besides they dedicate Fire Lord Izumi’s scene to confirming that the conflict was resolved The Fire Nation colonies, were never treated as a major issue. I didn’t even think about it until I read the comic Anyway, let’s agree to disagree. I think everyone is overrating the finale, and they are just glad to know that KorraXAsami is canon There are of course, things I do like about the finale. But the reason I made this thread was because I just wanted to express my thoughts And actually my stance on Korra X Asami has changed again, mostly because their probably just starting a relationship together. So in that case it makes a little more sense, they are probably going to date for a while unless they rush into a relationship together If they make it into the comics, I expect more development than we had on the show Thanks for reading!

(Edited by Gdamon)

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Weltall8000·1/27/2015

Wu never formally stepped down. It’s like Book 1 ending with Tenzin declaring that non-benders would get a voice. The Prisoner’s I’m talking about are from her re-education camp, but now that I think about it we probably don’t have time for that Okay, by that same token we never saw Zuko do anything great for the world in the capacity of Fire Lord in the series, therefore, no resolution. Wu said he was going to step down and help facilitate autonomous states within the Earth Nation. Okay, fair enough, he didn't actually do this yet, however, with him directly saying this, is there a significant reason not to believe this claim of his intention? So? Tenzin said he'd do this and there wasn't much reason to doubt this, and when we got book two they actually had done so by disbanding the council and having an elected president, who was a nonbender. The prisoners that we never saw and are reasonably released as the government holding them prisoner was decisively defeated? Why would this be a complicated loose end that needs to be spelled out for us? You’re probably correct about the conflict being solved with Kuvira being arrested, but it didn’t feel like an ending because we never saw the future of the Earth Kingdom. Her army is presumable arrested, everyone who got captured was probably rescued at some point, and the Spirit Vines are more than likely calm now We didn't see the future for the Fire Nation or any nation at the conclusion of ATLA in any significant way beyond what we did in LoK. We're shown through exposition what the general plan for the Earth Nation and Republic City are. Her army probably isn't all arrested, nor should they be, but the Fire Nation military was in exactly the same boat in that regard in ATLA. The problem is instead of treating it like a real conclusion to an overall conflict, we skipped ahead so that Korra and Asami could go on a vacation I could say the same thing about ATLA only replacing "Korra and Asami" with "Aang and Katara/the Gaang" and "vacation" with "make out session/tea party." So, is ATLA's a "real conclusion?" If so, you're not making a compelling case for LoK's not being so. I acknowledge that Azula’s insanity was never resolved in the series, but my other point that she had no power anymore is still correct. The most important thing was that Azula wasn’t going to be the Fire Lord, and the only reason I’m not complaining is because Soooooo my point still stands, that the Earth Empire's second in command was removed from power, thus resolving that...like in ATLA. - Its going to be resolved in the Comics Then, you're going to allow a few years to LoK to have comics before you criticize this aspect of LoK's conclusion, right? - Her defeat is satisfying to me, despite the fact that I’m a major Azula fan Well, Bataar Jr. was a joke, so YMMV. Either way, he was decisively taken out of influence within the Earth Empire's power structure. So, again, both are the same in that regard. The Fire Nation Military is loyal to the Fire Nation, while the Earth Empire is loyal to Kuvira. And Kuvira submitted to the Avatar, commanding her subordinates to stand down, accepting her defeat and surrendering. If you want to claim that the EE army is a potential problem, at the end of ATLA the Fire Nation military posed virtually the exact same potential threat. Ironically, the next set of comics will outline the Ozai loyalists and civil conflict within the Fire Nation. Besides they dedicate Fire Lord Izumi’s scene to confirming that the conflict was resolved Which scene, what conflict? Are you talking about a conflict decades earlier? And citing this scene, six years later as contributing to making ATLA's conclusion better/more wrapped up? The Fire Nation colonies, were never treated as a major issue. I didn’t even think about it until I read the comic Tell that to Avatar Roku. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree. I think everyone is overrating the finale, and they are just glad to know that KorraXAsami is canon There are of course, things I do like about the finale. But the reason I made this thread was because I just wanted to express my thoughts And actually my stance on Korra X Asami has changed again, mostly because their probably just starting a relationship together. So in that case it makes a little more sense, they are probably going to date for a while unless they rush into a relationship together If they make it into the comics, I expect more development than we had on the show 
 Thanks for reading! I take issue with this: Anyway, let’s agree to disagree. I think everyone is overrating the finale, and they are just glad to know that KorraXAsami is canon You came here with a controversial opinion and started a discussion on it, does it surprise you that it's now being debated? And if you really felt this way "let's agree to disagree," why even bother making paragraphs on the subject in that very post? It's also pretty weak to say that, then bash a widely held opinion that the finale is good, look at your phrasing "I think everyone is overrating the finale..." rather than something like "I am not a fan of how this finale worked out." The latter would be a fairly neutral expression of your personal take on it, which, would at least be easier to accept and respect, however, the former is essentially saying that people that did view it favorably are skewed/the problem. You also presume to know why they like it. Sure, KorraXAsami is a big reason that many have voiced as their favorite aspect, but it isn't for everyone and at the same time, as you state it, it diminishes it as though it's not a good reason or that's pretty much all the conclusion has good to offer. Perhaps it wasn't your intent, but as you state it, it comes off as incredibly condescending.

(Edited by Weltall8000)

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Gdamon·1/29/2015

I should apologize, if it seems condescending A more accurate statement would be "I think KorraXAsami fans, Entertainment News, and LGBT groups are overrating the finale. And they are just glad to know that KorraXAsami is canon" As for Wu, it’s because my own personal taste. But I would have rather seen him officially give up the throne, contrasting with Zuko accepting the throne About Korra and Asami's vacation, the reason I'm dissatisfied is because Korra pretty much bailed. Immediately after she beats Kuvira, she goes on vacation. It's funny because in episode 2 she was like "I should be the one fixing the Earth Kingdom". Anyway she did take out their leader, and she'll help Wu So it's justified. But when I use Fridge Logic...it seems messed up in a way I never said I had a problem with Bataar Jr I used Azula as an example of a plotline that didn’t get resolved. I pointed out that her story continues in the comics, it was my attempt at being fair Bataar Jr switching sides makes a reasonable amount of sense, it was also very predictable. Aside from that I never complained about his plotline getting resolved. If they continue with Legend of Korra comics, I’d be glad to see what they do with his character I’m well aware of the next Avatar comic, and that’s partially the reason why I doubt Kuvira’s followers would just disband Fire Lord Izumi’s scene in Beyond the Wilds. She refuses to let the Fire Nation take part in another war, it shows that Zuko and the gang’s efforts in stopping them did not go to waste I remember now, The Fire Lord wanted to expand territory or something like that. Avatar Roku didn’t like that, and ironically the Firelord’s dreams were fulfilled anyway WHAT A TWIST! In a sense I’m surprised that many people even wanted to know my opinion, I’m agreeing to disagree because I don’t want to spend days going back and forth I didn’t even want to debate. I read reviews all over the internet, I watched tons of reviews. Nearly everyone had talked about how amazing the finale was, and even people who didn’t like the finale enjoyed it because KorraXAsami. Anyone who didn’t support them were accused of Discrimination I actively encourage people to accept each other, and I’ve read stories with all types of relationships. I saw Korra and Asami’s relationship as friendship, and the last episode caught me by surprise. When I first went online, I didn’t know how I felt. Because aside from the Korra X Asami moment at the end, the finale felt flat. I tried to go along with it like everyone else, but I really wanted to say my thoughts The finale felt underwhelming, and I don’t blame Bryke for it. It’s all based on opinions, and personal preferences. I wanted to see whether or not other people felt the same way as me. Once again, there are some really cool things about the Finale I did like But it didn’t feel like a conclusion to the Avatar series, of course people are going to disagree and that’s okay. Talking to you has helped me re-adjust my opinion, but I don’t want to spend a year talking to you I would probably give the Finale - 8/10 Just out of curiosity what would you give it?

(Edited by Gdamon)

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Weltall8000·1/29/2015

A more accurate statement would be "I think KorraXAsami fans, Entertainment News, and LGBT groups are overrating the finale. And they are just glad to know that KorraXAsami is canon" That still has the same problem that I mentioned, only with an "I think..." attached. As for the rest, are you "agreeing to disagree" or do you intend to debate this? About Korra and Asami's vacation, the reason I'm dissatisfied is because Korra pretty much bailed. Immediately after she beats Kuvira, she goes on vacation. It's funny because in episode 2 she was like "I should be the one fixing the Earth Kingdom". Anyway she did take out their leader, and she'll help Wu And Aang sips tea and makes out with Katara. Does Korra going on vacation indicate that she will take no part in the reconstruction effort/future plans? Also, do note that the wedding was at least some period of time after Kuvira's defeat. I never said I had a problem with Bataar Jr I never said you did. I used Azula as an example of a plotline that didn’t get resolved. I pointed out that her story continues in the comics, it was my attempt at being fair Except, it was. In the comics she had her role expanded to be involved in another plotline. Azula was decisively defeated and captured when the show left off. Much like Bataar Jr.'s role as second in command in the antagonists' military/nation was concluded. Bataar Jr switching sides makes a reasonable amount of sense, it was also very predictable. Aside from that I never complained about his plotline getting resolved. If they continue with Legend of Korra comics, I’d be glad to see what they do with his character You seem to be missing the point. Bataar Jr. ties into the mention of Azula (as their situations parallel each other in a few key ways) and the end of Kuvira's military campaign, her second in command was taken down, so he's not carrying the flag after her downfall, much like Azula wasn't (in the show anyways) after Ozai's defeat. I’m well aware of the next Avatar comic, and that’s partially the reason why I doubt Kuvira’s followers would just disband Even if I ignore a number of things brought up on this point of contention and just go with this statement at face value, we go right back to ATLA's finale not tying up this loose end. In this regard, LoK is at least no worse off than ATLA in that capacity of resolving all the plot lines. Fire Lord Izumi’s scene in Beyond the Wilds. She refuses to let the Fire Nation take part in another war, it shows that Zuko and the gang’s efforts in stopping them did not go to waste What's your point? Like, for real, what does that actually have to do with anything? The Fire Lord ~70 years later doesn't want to participate in another war wantonly after they had a 100 year long war. And once again, if this is what finally resolved it for you, this was six years and four seasons of a spin off series later before it was done. This is way far removed from ATLA's finale having it resolved explicitly. I remember now, The Fire Lord wanted to expand territory or something like that. Avatar Roku didn’t like that, and ironically the Firelord’s dreams were fulfilled anyway WHAT A TWIST! Indeed, you overlooked the impetus for the entire war and why Aang was the "last airbender." In a sense I’m surprised that many people even wanted to know my opinion, I’m agreeing to disagree because I don’t want to spend days going back and forth Wait, who asked for it? Yet, here you are. I didn’t even want to debate. I read reviews all over the internet, I watched tons of reviews. Nearly everyone had talked about how amazing the finale was, and even people who didn’t like the finale enjoyed it because KorraXAsami. Anyone who didn’t support them were accused of Discrimination So, you've read opinions of people who did not think the finale was amazing. While it would appear more liked it than disliked it within the fandom, it doesn't take much searching to see a fairly sizable amount of people that don't like Korra x Asami. Sometimes it actually is discrimination, sometimes it's unjustly accused, but that is a separate issue and doesn't validate what you said earlier about how it's overrated. Just out of curiosity what would you give it? Depends on what exactly we are talking about. Book 4 as a whole, would be low. Most of the last few episodes either individually or collectively even lower. The last five minutes of the final episode, higher end of the mid range, more favorable than not. By the end, it may have been that my expectations were so low that anything not terrible would have seemed good by comparison. That said, what it did well for me was give a sense that "life goes on" this chapter is closed and that there are all sorts of possibilities waiting to be explored. This is actually a pretty big problem with many westerners, many of us just cannot handle anything the least bit open ended and must have everything pinned down in great detail, finite, as well as looking through rose tinted glasses, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed ATLA more than LoK...which had a comparably closed/open ending to LoK.

(Edited by Weltall8000)

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Gdamon·1/29/2015

Indeed, you overlooked the impetus for the entire war and why Aang was the "last airbender." Its hard not to remember. Sozin left Roku to die. The Air Nomad's were attacked by the Fire Nation, and brought into 99% extinction Wait, who asked for it? Yet, here you are. The reason i keep going back to this thread is to see if anyone else has anything to say And you keep trying to find fault in everything i say Does Korra going on vacation indicate that she will take no part in the reconstruction effort/future plans? I said it was justified. And the finale never implied time passed Bataar Jr. ties into the mention of Azula (as their situations parallel each other in a few key ways) Baatar Jr seems more like a parallel to P'Li what it did well for me was give a sense that "life goes on" Good point, in that sense the finale does an amazing job. this is coming from someone who enjoyed ATLA more than LoK...which had a comparably closed/open ending to LoK The entire series of Korra, was pretty much of opposite of Avatar in every way Aang learned to face danger head on Korra learned to calm down situations Aang had 1 big bad, Korra had 4 big bads TLA took its time, LOK just showed the important stuff I think the lesson, someone can take from these series is that Balance requires 2 people to compromise. And look it things from each other's perspective In the spirit of Balance: http://s223.photobucket.com/user/BSP06XRU/media/Misc%20Pics/InternetHighFive_zpsa9260a11.png.html HIGH FIVE!

(Edited by Gdamon)

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Weltall8000·1/30/2015

Its hard not to remember. Sozin left Roku to die. The Air Nomad's were attacked by the Fire Nation, and brought into 99% extinction ...No, you're missing a key step here, it was Sozin's colonies, for which Roku stormed in to Sozin's palace and demanded he cease and desist. Sozin said "lol no." Roku went Avatar State and leveled his palace. Sozin then bided his time to get Roku out of the picture, then, when he had the window of opportunity granted by the comet, destroyed the Air Nation, so that the Avatar could not stand against him. The Fire Nation expansion (aka the colonization) was the point of contention that drove Roku and Sozin apart and plunged the world into over a hundred years of war. The Fire Nation colonies were a significant part of the history, which was part of an important plot point. We also have a number of episodes while in the Earth Nation, that Aang and friends run into occupied territory run by the Fire Nation. The reason i keep going back to this thread is to see if anyone else has anything to say Which, doesn't really explain the hypocrisy. And you keep trying to find fault in everything i say Maybe that should give motivation to say better things with less problems? I said it was justified. And the finale never implied time passed Who's talking about it being "justified?" We're talking about resolution, wrapped up. So, Varrick and Zhu'Li's wedding was all set up, ready to go, before Kuvira was taken down? Baatar Jr seems more like a parallel to P'Li I've been thoroughly convinced that you haven't even been following our conversation, you just keep driving that notion further. The entire series of Korra, was pretty much of opposite of Avatar in every way Aang learned to face danger head on Korra learned to calm down situations Aang had 1 big bad, Korra had 4 big bads TLA took its time, LOK just showed the important stuff I think the lesson, someone can take from these series is that Balance requires 2 people to compromise. And look it things from each other's perspective I wouldn't entirely agree. There were a number of similarities, they certainly had their differences, but "opposite" seems a bit of a stretch.

(Edited by Weltall8000)

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Neo Bahamut·1/30/2015

<div class="quote">This is actually a pretty big problem with many westerners, many of us just cannot handle anything the least bit open ended and must have everything pinned down in great detail,</div>
Hah, I wish. People are always clamoring for open endings & my appeals to the fact that this is literally tantamount to just not writing a complete ending always fall on deaf ears. I want to find the guy who first came up with the notion that open endings are SO DEEP & shoot him.

(Edited by Neo Bahamut)

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Weltall8000·1/30/2015

Well, open endings for the sake of being open endings are weak. At the same time, having half and hour of showing what everyone does after the ring is cast into the lava, is pretty lame too. Not all open endings are good don't get me wrong...however, must we have every single possible question answered in great detail at the end of the narrative?

(Edited by Weltall8000)

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Love Robin·1/30/2015

Real life is like that tho. Not everything is known. And actually, sometimes Less is indeed More. For example, in Star Trek. In TOS minimalism was paramount. There were plenty of things the crew did not know, did not find out, in fact did not *need* to know in order to resolve the Problem of the Week. Take the episode Catspaw. These aliens had a device to make thoughts/wishes true. No idea how it worked. Kirk figured out what the device was hidden as, and crushed it. Wham! Problems solved. Prisoners and starship freed, aliens dying. And no idea where they were from. However in TNG, everything MUST be understood by the crew. How it works. throwing out more and more complicated webs of technobabble. The TNG crew did not meet something they did not fail to figure out ALL the intricacies of in order to divine a way to counter and solve it. The difference? With TOS, The Universe is Big and Unknown, but we'll prevail. In TNG, We Know and Will Figure Out Everything, and that's why we'll prevail. Frankly TOS did more with smaller budget than TNG. Same here. what is not spoon fed to us, we know how it will likely play out from common tropes. But by not defining everything, we leave open more opportunities for more stories in the future, beit Comics, Another Series, or *quality* fanfics. I've tossed out a handful of scenarios in various threads which could make for compelling plotlines for continuing the LOK continuity, but with everything tied up by the creators my suggestions would have no foundations. So again, "loose ends" = greater storytelling opportunities.

(Edited by Love Robin)

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Neo Bahamut·1/30/2015

<div class="quote">Not all open endings are good don't get me wrong...however, must we have every single possible question answered in great detail at the end of the narrative?</div>
The ones of importance. Like lavabending, I'd like to know about that. <div class="quote">Real life is like that tho. Not everything is known.</div>
You can't break suspension of disbelief in real life. I don't recognize anything about Star Trek. <div class="quote">Same here. what is not spoon fed to us, we know how it will likely play out from common tropes. But by not defining everything, we leave open more opportunities for more stories in the future, beit Comics, Another Series, or *quality* fanfics.</div>
If you get that opportunity. The problem with this strategy became quite evident to me when Gargoyles ended. He had so many subplots & spinoffs planned, but almost none of them happened, so he ended up basically just telling everyone what was going to happen via Q&A. And weirdly, he's still saving some, even though both the series & the comics are beyond dead. I don't really care about fanfics that seek to answer something that wasn't said, because ultimately, the answer is not real, it's just something that somebody made up.

(Edited by Neo Bahamut)