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ALL POSTSMercury bending
<p>Hey guys :) I just wanted to ask you about your Mercury bending theories.
</p><p>I mean, it is hard to imagine that there are pieces of earth in a liquid metal, let alone to bend it through fine earth pieces. Or at least it is for me.
</p>
(Edited by Dr.Who1997)
<p>Well.. Maybe the Chemistry in the Avatar World is not well studied yet..
</p><p>For a person to 'earthbend' he/she would have to be able to 'metalbend'.. Since 'earth' is a mix of metals and other elements (but lots of metal elements)...
</p><p>For an example, the red or brown hue of the 'earth' is due to the Iron in the earth..
</p><p>
</p><p>In my opinion, it is a matter of time to someone learn to bend pure metals... Or even, in the case of that 'metal poison'.. If it is liquid metal, not mud or something like it, the red lotus poison guy and korra and Su already bend pure metal or materials which are blends of metals (since the poison is liquid and it is metal, and because Su bent the liquid out of Korra, i suppose that liquid does not contain Water (if it does, then or Su is also a waterbender, or else, waterbenders can bend liquid metal...).. </p><p>
</p><p>It would be easier or more logical to think that the heavier the metal, the more difficult it would be to bend it.. </p>
</p><p>In my opinion, it is a matter of time to someone learn to bend pure metals... Or even, in the case of that 'metal poison'.. If it is liquid metal, not mud or something like it, the red lotus poison guy and korra and Su already bend pure metal or materials which are blends of metals (since the poison is liquid and it is metal, and because Su bent the liquid out of Korra, i suppose that liquid does not contain Water (if it does, then or Su is also a waterbender, or else, waterbenders can bend liquid metal...).. </p><p>
</p><p>It would be easier or more logical to think that the heavier the metal, the more difficult it would be to bend it.. </p>
(Edited by ScreamingFox)
<p>Basically there will be courses labelled "Chemical Bending 101" and "Spirit Physics" at Ba Sing Se, Republic City, and Capitol Universities one day. I'm sure that somebody in the Avatar fandom who was well versed enough in Chemistry could come up with a legit, comprehensive theory. Until then, lets chalk it up to Bryke's inconsistencies.
</p>
(Edited by The Elementalist)
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<div class="quote"><i>Intelligence4 wrote:
platinum is a terrible metal to build stuff out of because it's so soft. i think we can safely say that stuff like this is simply the result of bryke not being very well versed in the sciences.</i></div>
<p>Pure iron is also soft, like most pure metals. Alloying iron with traces of carbon (which is earth-bendable) turns it into steel, e.g., a common A36 steel has ultimate tensile strength of 400-550 MPa. If Hiroshi wanted a pure metal alloy, he can substitute carbon with another metal, e.g., Iron-Platinum alloy can have ultimate tensile strength of 454 MPA.[1] Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. </p><p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p>
platinum is a terrible metal to build stuff out of because it's so soft. i think we can safely say that stuff like this is simply the result of bryke not being very well versed in the sciences.</i></div>
<p>Pure iron is also soft, like most pure metals. Alloying iron with traces of carbon (which is earth-bendable) turns it into steel, e.g., a common A36 steel has ultimate tensile strength of 400-550 MPa. If Hiroshi wanted a pure metal alloy, he can substitute carbon with another metal, e.g., Iron-Platinum alloy can have ultimate tensile strength of 454 MPA.[1] Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. </p><p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p>
(Edited by Hasdi)
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<p>I think the whole titanium gimmick was there to tell us that the metalbenders couldn't bend it. To raise the tension in the scene rather than do any kind of real world stuff.
</p><p>Can we get a copy of that script? Is it the offical script as well? We know that pure metals are practically impossible to bend for earthbenders, so having it as pure mercury just seems odd.
</p>
(Edited by Kubernes)
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<div class="quote"><i>The Elementalist wrote:
Basically there will be courses labelled "Chemical Bending 101" and "Spirit Physics" at Ba Sing Se, Republic City, and Capitol Universities one day. I'm sure that somebody in the Avatar fandom who was well versed enough in Chemistry could come up with a legit, comprehensive theory... </i></div>
<p>I really, really hope so. Here's wishing they'll continue developing the world in a playable (video game) format next, including being able to train/level your character by taking classes at Ba Sing Se university. </p> <div class="quote"><i>Lavabending wrote:
Mercury has a purity of 13.6% while platinum has a purity of 21.45% so maybe metalbenders are able to bend metals to the range of like 15%...</i></div>
<p>These numbers are for the "raw" states of metals, as in their average concentration in ore or other natural sources. They can be refined down to almost 100% purity. (You can buy 99.999% purity Mercury on the internet.) Since these are pure elements we're talking about, not compounds, it's important to remember that any reference to them by name should implicitly mean 100% purity. </p> <div class="quote"><i>Hasdi wrote:
...Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. <p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p> </i></div>
<p>Hoorah! Titanium alloys are insanely strong (inflexible/unbreakable) for their weight class, making them one of the reasons they're favored so strongly as medical implants. For example, I have 1 meter of titanium rods and 26 titanium screws and they only add an additional 2 lbs to my body weight, whereas Tungsten steel would add nearly 10 lbs to achieve the same result. </p><p>There is the possibility that chemical elements in the Avatar world don't correlate to the ones we know, so "platinum" to them may well be what we would call a high-purity alloy. Or perhaps, given the rarity of platinum, they just thought it would be less likely to be questioned. (Whereas titanium is actually rather common.) </p><p><u>In regards to Mercury:</u> we've seen Toph and Katara work together to separate mud/pollution from water and have even seen Toph mudbend without any qualms. Therefore, it seems to me that any metalbender would likely be able to bend Mercury in the same fashion. The problem is that the writers needed an "unobtanium" and therefore threw in the inability to bend a "pure" metal, causing this issue. </p><p><u>In regards to "pure" metals:</u> to me all evidence points to this term referring to the purity and uniformity of the elemental matrix of the metal rather than it's actual (chemical) elemental proportions. </p> <dl><dd>When Toph metalbends for the first time, we get a glimpse of how she perceives the metal, including the "impurities" which she is able to exploit in order to bend the metal. </dd></dl><p>From this we can extrapolate that the electron cloud of metals has some effect on their bend-ability, with the most likely postulate for this being that the electron cloud acts as a type of shield against bending. Impurities in the metallic matrix cause distortions in the cloud which may possibly then be used as anchor points for the bender to exert their control over the metal. </p><p>-sigh- When are they going to publish a "Subatomic Guide to Bending"? </p><p>Thanks for reading, and I hope this was both helpful, informative, clarifying, and provided further fuel for this and other conversations. Girinis <small>(wall • contribs)</small> 18:33, June 15, 2015 (UTC) </p><p>
</p>
Basically there will be courses labelled "Chemical Bending 101" and "Spirit Physics" at Ba Sing Se, Republic City, and Capitol Universities one day. I'm sure that somebody in the Avatar fandom who was well versed enough in Chemistry could come up with a legit, comprehensive theory... </i></div>
<p>I really, really hope so. Here's wishing they'll continue developing the world in a playable (video game) format next, including being able to train/level your character by taking classes at Ba Sing Se university. </p> <div class="quote"><i>Lavabending wrote:
Mercury has a purity of 13.6% while platinum has a purity of 21.45% so maybe metalbenders are able to bend metals to the range of like 15%...</i></div>
<p>These numbers are for the "raw" states of metals, as in their average concentration in ore or other natural sources. They can be refined down to almost 100% purity. (You can buy 99.999% purity Mercury on the internet.) Since these are pure elements we're talking about, not compounds, it's important to remember that any reference to them by name should implicitly mean 100% purity. </p> <div class="quote"><i>Hasdi wrote:
...Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. <p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p> </i></div>
<p>Hoorah! Titanium alloys are insanely strong (inflexible/unbreakable) for their weight class, making them one of the reasons they're favored so strongly as medical implants. For example, I have 1 meter of titanium rods and 26 titanium screws and they only add an additional 2 lbs to my body weight, whereas Tungsten steel would add nearly 10 lbs to achieve the same result. </p><p>There is the possibility that chemical elements in the Avatar world don't correlate to the ones we know, so "platinum" to them may well be what we would call a high-purity alloy. Or perhaps, given the rarity of platinum, they just thought it would be less likely to be questioned. (Whereas titanium is actually rather common.) </p><p><u>In regards to Mercury:</u> we've seen Toph and Katara work together to separate mud/pollution from water and have even seen Toph mudbend without any qualms. Therefore, it seems to me that any metalbender would likely be able to bend Mercury in the same fashion. The problem is that the writers needed an "unobtanium" and therefore threw in the inability to bend a "pure" metal, causing this issue. </p><p><u>In regards to "pure" metals:</u> to me all evidence points to this term referring to the purity and uniformity of the elemental matrix of the metal rather than it's actual (chemical) elemental proportions. </p> <dl><dd>When Toph metalbends for the first time, we get a glimpse of how she perceives the metal, including the "impurities" which she is able to exploit in order to bend the metal. </dd></dl><p>From this we can extrapolate that the electron cloud of metals has some effect on their bend-ability, with the most likely postulate for this being that the electron cloud acts as a type of shield against bending. Impurities in the metallic matrix cause distortions in the cloud which may possibly then be used as anchor points for the bender to exert their control over the metal. </p><p>-sigh- When are they going to publish a "Subatomic Guide to Bending"? </p><p>Thanks for reading, and I hope this was both helpful, informative, clarifying, and provided further fuel for this and other conversations. Girinis <small>(wall • contribs)</small> 18:33, June 15, 2015 (UTC) </p><p>
</p>
(Edited by Girinis)
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<p>Mercury in someways can be considered a 'liquid', but in the end it is not water, and is metal.
</p>
(Edited by 81cheney)
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It's interesting but wouldn't it be easier to come up with some sort of 'lesser' mercury to allow for the balance between bending pure metals and nonpure ones? Something like amalgam?
(Edited by Kubernes)
<div class="quote"><i>Girinis wrote:
<div class="quote">The Elementalist wrote:
Basically there will be courses labelled "Chemical Bending 101" and "Spirit Physics" at Ba Sing Se, Republic City, and Capitol Universities one day. I'm sure that somebody in the Avatar fandom who was well versed enough in Chemistry could come up with a legit, comprehensive theory... </i></div>
I really, really hope so. Here's wishing they'll continue developing the world in a playable (video game) format next, including being able to train/level your character by taking classes at Ba Sing Se university. <p>
</p> <div class="quote"><i>Lavabending wrote:
Mercury has a purity of 13.6% while platinum has a purity of 21.45% so maybe metalbenders are able to bend metals to the range of like 15%...</i></div>
These numbers are for the "raw" states of metals, as in their average concentration in ore or other natural sources. They can be refined down to almost 100% purity. (You can buy 99.999% purity Mercury on the internet.) Since these are pure elements we're talking about, not compounds, it's important to remember that any reference to them by name should implicitly mean 100% purity. <p>
</p> <div class="quote"><i>Hasdi wrote:
...Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. <p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p> </i></div>
Hoorah! Titanium alloys are insanely strong (inflexible/unbreakable) for their weight class, making them one of the reasons they're favored so strongly as medical implants. For example, I have 1 meter of titanium rods and 26 titanium screws and they only add an additional 2 lbs to my body weight, whereas Tungsten steel would add nearly 10 lbs to achieve the same result. <p>There is the possibility that chemical elements in the Avatar world don't correlate to the ones we know, so "platinum" to them may well be what we would call a high-purity alloy. Or perhaps, given the rarity of platinum, they just thought it would be less likely to be questioned. (Whereas titanium is actually rather common.) </p><p><u>In regards to Mercury:</u> we've seen Toph and Katara work together to separate mud/pollution from water and have even seen Toph mudbend without any qualms. Therefore, it seems to me that any metalbender would likely be able to bend Mercury in the same fashion. The problem is that the writers needed an "unobtanium" and therefore threw in the inability to bend a "pure" metal, causing this issue. </p><p><u>In regards to "pure" metals:</u> to me all evidence points to this term referring to the purity and uniformity of the elemental matrix of the metal rather than it's actual (chemical) elemental proportions. </p> <dl><dd>When Toph metalbends for the first time, we get a glimpse of how she perceives the metal, including the "impurities" which she is able to exploit in order to bend the metal. </dd></dl><p>From this we can extrapolate that the electron cloud of metals has some effect on their bend-ability, with the most likely postulate for this being that the electron cloud acts as a type of shield against bending. Impurities in the metallic matrix cause distortions in the cloud which may possibly then be used as anchor points for the bender to exert their control over the metal. </p><p>-sigh- When are they going to publish a "Subatomic Guide to Bending"? </p><p>Thanks for reading, and I hope this was both helpful, informative, clarifying, and provided further fuel for this and other conversations. Girinis <small>(wall • contribs)</small> 18:33, June 15, 2015 (UTC) </p><p>
</p> </div> <p>This is the absolute truth. The show gives no corroboration for why platinumbending is extraordinary. </p>
<div class="quote">The Elementalist wrote:
Basically there will be courses labelled "Chemical Bending 101" and "Spirit Physics" at Ba Sing Se, Republic City, and Capitol Universities one day. I'm sure that somebody in the Avatar fandom who was well versed enough in Chemistry could come up with a legit, comprehensive theory... </i></div>
I really, really hope so. Here's wishing they'll continue developing the world in a playable (video game) format next, including being able to train/level your character by taking classes at Ba Sing Se university. <p>
</p> <div class="quote"><i>Lavabending wrote:
Mercury has a purity of 13.6% while platinum has a purity of 21.45% so maybe metalbenders are able to bend metals to the range of like 15%...</i></div>
These numbers are for the "raw" states of metals, as in their average concentration in ore or other natural sources. They can be refined down to almost 100% purity. (You can buy 99.999% purity Mercury on the internet.) Since these are pure elements we're talking about, not compounds, it's important to remember that any reference to them by name should implicitly mean 100% purity. <p>
</p> <div class="quote"><i>Hasdi wrote:
...Personally, I think it'd be cheaper for him to use Titanium alloy like Ti-6Al-7Nb, which is also much stronger at 893 MPa. <p>However, the mercury thing has me stumped. xP </p> </i></div>
Hoorah! Titanium alloys are insanely strong (inflexible/unbreakable) for their weight class, making them one of the reasons they're favored so strongly as medical implants. For example, I have 1 meter of titanium rods and 26 titanium screws and they only add an additional 2 lbs to my body weight, whereas Tungsten steel would add nearly 10 lbs to achieve the same result. <p>There is the possibility that chemical elements in the Avatar world don't correlate to the ones we know, so "platinum" to them may well be what we would call a high-purity alloy. Or perhaps, given the rarity of platinum, they just thought it would be less likely to be questioned. (Whereas titanium is actually rather common.) </p><p><u>In regards to Mercury:</u> we've seen Toph and Katara work together to separate mud/pollution from water and have even seen Toph mudbend without any qualms. Therefore, it seems to me that any metalbender would likely be able to bend Mercury in the same fashion. The problem is that the writers needed an "unobtanium" and therefore threw in the inability to bend a "pure" metal, causing this issue. </p><p><u>In regards to "pure" metals:</u> to me all evidence points to this term referring to the purity and uniformity of the elemental matrix of the metal rather than it's actual (chemical) elemental proportions. </p> <dl><dd>When Toph metalbends for the first time, we get a glimpse of how she perceives the metal, including the "impurities" which she is able to exploit in order to bend the metal. </dd></dl><p>From this we can extrapolate that the electron cloud of metals has some effect on their bend-ability, with the most likely postulate for this being that the electron cloud acts as a type of shield against bending. Impurities in the metallic matrix cause distortions in the cloud which may possibly then be used as anchor points for the bender to exert their control over the metal. </p><p>-sigh- When are they going to publish a "Subatomic Guide to Bending"? </p><p>Thanks for reading, and I hope this was both helpful, informative, clarifying, and provided further fuel for this and other conversations. Girinis <small>(wall • contribs)</small> 18:33, June 15, 2015 (UTC) </p><p>
</p> </div> <p>This is the absolute truth. The show gives no corroboration for why platinumbending is extraordinary. </p>
(Edited by Slaphappyjoy)
<p>Well, I mean, considering that bending, chi, and a spirit world exist, I don't think we can really apply real-world physics to the world of Avatar. I think that Bryke should have tried to centre physics in the show around spirits, so that at least the world would be self-consistent. The main problem is obviously with bending, considering that the way bending works is too human-made to fit in with our understanding of science in any way. For example: why can only water be bended, when countless other liquid compunds cannot? How does blood-bending (which would pretty much cause the victim to drop into a coma because of lack of blood to the brain rather than be controlled) even work? Muscles don't move because blood enters them and limbs sure as hell don't extend or relax because you change the amount of blood in them.
</p><p>However, we could reorganise the Avatar world to work on the basis of spiritual rules rather than the rules of our world. "Platinum" could simply be considered a very pure metal, magicked in by some spirit or the other some time ago because [random reason]. Living creatures could operate on the basis of chi and it's movements, with benders able to control their chi with a high enough precision to spiritually manipulate elements (simply manifestations of some god-spirit or something,) while blood-bending would work by the bloodbender controlling the chi within their victims' bodies, allowing them to manipulate the body like a puppet. However, contact physics (such as pushing and pulling) would still apply, for which I am not sure I can produce an adequate spiritual explanation. Steam and the thermodynamics of gases (especially in stuff like the steam drill and the Satomobile) also cannot be explained very well by spiritual rules.
</p><p>In the end, Bryke would have to have a pretty darn good understanding of physics to be able to realise what parts of our physics and Avatar physics contradict each other so that a suitable spirit-based universe can be created. Otherwise, any science in the show will be doomed to be rather superficial and contradictory.
</p>
(Edited by EarlPN)