Talk:Hundred Year War

Noncanon Pilot Map
I vote to remove that pilot map. First, you can obviously seen a few changes were made when they made the current map, such as the Water Tribes and the outer islands of the Fire Nation. Not to mention that if you keep watching the pilot the red almost goes over all the continents, which is not the case in the show.

--8th Mizukage 04:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Some anon added it, I think it serves a good purpose, but if we have to remove it, I suggest putting another similar image, such as a map from either the FN war room, or the Council of Five's room. Omnibender 22:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I greatly agree, in fact I came to this discussion page to post about this Felinoel 04:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't really care if a picture replaces it, I just don't think that particular one is a good image to chose.

--8th Mizukage 06:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It might as well just be taken down right? It doesn't need to be replaced by anything? Felinoel 15:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Or if it needs a picture, how about this? Felinoel

I don't even see why it was up in the first place. Allison0z 16:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent point, I removed it, if anyone feels the need for any other picture there, please keep it canon Felinoel 20:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Name
Yea, idk about the name of this article, it might be good for now but what about in 2009 when that new miniseries is supposed to come out? What if there are other wars shown in the shows? I'm thinking you should name it after who started it and call it, Sozin's War. felinoel ~ (Talk) 00:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good name. Omnibender 23:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone else feel like commenting? felinoel ~ (Talk) 01:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Why not The Hundred Year's War? It's witty, truthful, and historical. Lord Momo 02:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds good too felinoel ~ (Talk) 02:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I like "Hundred Years War" too.Puragus 05:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It would remove the confusion "Sozin's War" would most definitely cause because people see Ozai fighting it, not Sozin, and they don't realize Sozin started the war so its really his felinoel ~ (Talk) 14:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was only Sozin's war for like the first 20 years (I think).Puragus 17:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well you mean Sozin only fought in it for the first about 20 years felinoel ~ (Talk) 01:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think so. The timeline for what happened when during the war is a little hazy.Puragus 16:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

If what I remember from Mike and Bryan's interview at AvatarSpirit correctly, Sozin ruled the Fire Nation during the first 20 years of the war, which means he lived 32 years after Roku's death, during which he fathered Azulon, who in turn ruled the Fire Nation for 75 years (total of 95), and the last 5 years were Ozai. Omnibender 21:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, what I am saying is Sozin started it, it will always have been Sozin's war, not just for the years he fought in it felinoel ~ (Talk) 02:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's true. Sozin started the war, but he obviously wasn't leading the Fire Nation the entire time it was going on, so it probably went in directions that he never foresaw or intended. I mean, Sozin didn't come up with that "Phoenix King" thing, did he? And he didn't think of wiping out the Earth Kingdom. Sure, the war was Sozin's idea, but if we're talking about overall contributions to it; I think calling it "Sozin's War" lays the whole thing on Sozin, and diminishes the impact and scale of the whole thing. Puragus - Talk 02:24, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

While I agree with you Puragus, "Sozin's War" is the best name I can think of other than Century War or 100 Years War. The reason I think Sozin's War is the best name is because he was the instigator of the war, even if he didn't rule the FN during the whole war, in way, it's like Sozin's Comet, he used it to start the war, and the Comet was named after him, so while Ozai used it to try ending the war, it is still known as Sozin's Comet. If someone can think up another suiting name, all ideas are welcome. Omnibender - Talk 17:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why are we talking about the overall contributions to it Pur? felinoel ~ (Talk) 06:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying, it doesn't seem to fit as well as "Hundred Years War", or something like that because of overall contributions.Puragus - Talk 20:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, what you said was that Sozin didn't contribute enough in the war to have it be named after him, when he started the war which amounts to a pretty big contribution, also he took an action that caused the Avatar to get frozen for a hundred years, that too seems like a big contribution... But anyways I never said I didn't like Hundred Year War felinoel ~ (Talk) 07:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Er...maybe I misspoke. I didn't mean to sound like Sozin didn't do a lot by starting the war. He just wasn't there the entire time, so he's not ultimately responsible for the directions it would take: Azulon and Ozai are. But anyway, what should the new name be? My vote is for Hundred Years War. Puragus - Talk 18:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So if you had a kid and taught it nothing but how to steal and kill all its life, and once you leave it and it kills and steals like crazy you aren't ultimately responsible? I think years should be singular, I have heard many wars be called about how many years they had but they all had years be singular for some reason felinoel ~ (Talk) 06:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What, you're using an environment defense for Azulon and Ozai now? They each had a choice in their actions, even if they were raised in a certain way. Look at Zuko and Iroh, they were raised the same way, but they chose to be good instead (Zuko much sooner than Iroh, I'll admit). Also, Wikipedia names the actual Hundred Years' War as plural. Puragus - Talk 15:25, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I am not talking about anyone in the Avatar show, I was making an analogy with what you said, reread it. felinoel ~ (Talk) 17:29, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but what I was saying is relevant to your analogy; that kid would still have a choice in his or her actions. Just because someone is raised a certain way, doesn't mean that they'll turn out that way, because they have a choice. For example, I know people who were raised in ultra-conservative religious type households, but grew up to be atheists or evolutionists or moderate liberals. To continue your analogy, if that kid were to shoot someone and kill them, the parent bears some part of the responsibility, but it doesn't change the fact that the kid pulled the trigger.

Similarly, Ozai may have been raised to conquer the world by Azulon, who in turn was raised to do the same thing by Sozin, but each of them still had a choice to stop (I think even Aang made that point in "Into the Inferno", when he tries to persuade Ozai to stop, right before the fight starts. He says something like "you still have a choice" or "the power to stop this" or something along those lines.) I guess my opinion is that pinning the war on Sozin minimizes the atrocities committed by Azulon and Ozai, and that's wrong. Although, the last time I posted on this debate was a month ago, so that may not have been my exact position then, but my vote is still for Hundred Years War. Puragus - Talk 17:47, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Again I say I was not saying anything about the Avatar World, I was just talking about a kid, any kid, one that was raised by its parents to do nothing but steal and kill for the first ten years of its life and then they abandon it, as I said above by applying your statement you are saying the parents have basically no fault behind this kid, like how little credit you are giving Sozin felinoel ~ (Talk) 17:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

READ MY ARGUMENT. I specifically said that the parent bears some responsibility, but that the decision ultimately rests with the kid. I also said that my Sozin/Azulon/Ozai statement is relevant to your analogy, and that's why I mention it.

Also, I don't think I'm giving Sozin too little credit, but let me be clear: Sozin did many horrible things. He betrayed his best friend. He started the war. He committed genocide when he exterminated the Air Nomads. He nearly exterminated the Dragons. He brought havoc on the world, and I'll give him credit for all of that.

However, Azulon and Ozai did many horrible things too, things that they chose to do for themselves, even if they were raised in a certain way. I'm not giving too little credit to Sozin. You're the one who's not giving enough credit to Azulon and Ozai, at least from my point of view. Puragus - Talk 18:10, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Azulon and Ozai did those things in Sozin's name, in preparation for a comet even named after him, a comet that started the war. felinoel ~ (Talk) 18:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

They did it for themselves, for their own selfish desires for power and glory, or at least Ozai did. Remember Ozai's speech in "The Phoenix King". He barely mentioned Sozin once. Most of the speech was about him and how he would be the supreme ruler of everything. He may have looked at Sozin as a role model and he probably admired him (And Azulon, too), but his desire for power was his own thing. You notice how he created the "Phoenix King", a position ranked higher than "Fire Lord", for himself? That says to me he wants to be better than Sozin. Look at Ozai's expression as he's burning the Earth Kingdom: he's definitely not thinking "This is all all for you, Grandpa!" Look at what he says to Aang: "I have all the power in the world!" It's not Sozin he's doing this for, it's himself.

I don't know that the same thing is true for Azulon, maybe he was just carrying on his father's legacy. We don't know enough about him to make any definitive statements either way. But we do know one thing: he was cruel enough to order his son to kill his grandson. Sozin was long dead by that time, so wasn't Sozin that did that, it was him. No matter how he was raised, he still had a choice not to be so cruel.

There are a lot of things we can blame Sozin on, but he doesn't deserve the blame for every single bad thing that happened during the war. Puragus - Talk 19:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I never said he was doing it for anyone but himself, but he was doing it in the name of the person who made all that possible to happen.
 * I never said blame everything on Sozin, I merely said name the war after him, after the person who started it all
 * I still can't believe you think most of what the kid does is his fault, this kid is psychologicall scarred, thats like blaming a mentally challenged person for jaywalking across a road with no cars in sight whatsoever felinoel ~ (Talk) 19:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)