Talk:Iroh/@comment-3278061-20110928165231/@comment-3068994-20111109051303

It's funny to me that you say Iroh is a fat, slow, dumb-witted oaf with battle, incapable of moving quickly. He was displayed several times as being in control of his body to the point of battling opponents who could bend, either without using bending at all, or using it just enough to get the job done without over-exerting himself. He's the type of fighter who understands to not over-exert himself in combat, but take his opponent down with appropriate wait-and-react moves. (Winter Solstice, Siege of the North, The Avatar State, etc...)

Have you ever heard of Aikido? It doesn't look as impressive as brute-force martial arts. Learning it can be equally dull to people, because it's not all about thrusts and kicks/etc. It's not about strength, it's about wits. But that wits can easily overpower anybody using the other martial arts methods' brute force tactics. Aikido applies the least bit of energy to moves, allowing the energy your opponent exerts to be used against them rather than expend your own, while at the same time turning their attack against them. Note this is Iroh's behavior, especially noticeable when he combats Earthbenders in Winter Solstice. He has no armor and doesn't bother even breaking out his bending and takes them down, even saving his nephew from what would have been a lethal maneuver.

Facts > Speculation. Yep; and what we're given of the character asserts his prowess. If you wish to shut that information out and say "show me or get out," you're being too closed-minded on the character in question. 888 already pointed out a great deal of detail in which we were provided that shows this character's skill, and I just cited a combat behavior of his with which he remains fully agile - taking down his opponents without even expending his own chi in the process. There is no need to be flashy to show one's might. Example being a real life example I am aware of with Aikido; my past instructor infuriated a man in a tournament with his refusal to get phsyical with him. That man gave my instructor the strongest attack he could muster - with which my instructor applied next to no energy to dispel. He moved with the man's motion, took control of his body and in a quick turn, released him - allowing him to with his own momentum go flying out of the fighting ring. Brains over brawn; not that brawn is lacking - but it is best to know when and how much to apply.

Ozai was jealous of Iroh from their younger days and stole his birthright. It's no wonder he'd be mocking of the old man. Iroh let Ozai have the throne; we all know that, but why? Because he was too weak to face Ozai? No. He could have ousted Ozai from the throne for the reasons 888 already stated, but he chose not to. He had basically gone through a wake-up call, a life change, having lost his only remaining immediate family of his own - Lu Ten. It was a time when he had a change of heart, no longer supporting that lifestyle. It was by his own choice he allowed Ozai to claim the throne - he no longer wanted to lead the Fire Nation. It could also be viewed as what he cited in the finale; more senseless violence - a brother killing a brother to claim the throne. He would not have been able to make the same impact publicly, politically and worldwide as what had happened later, when the Avatar himself dethroned the Fire Lord.

Iroh did not interfere with the agni kai with the Fire Lord. Why? Because interfering within the realm of the agni kai would not achieve anything, and he would fail. He would easily be breaking rules and the entire court and guards were all present. All Zuko did was speak his mind - not even against Ozai directly - to get in that mess. If Iroh were to interfere with that event himself, the gravity of that would be ten times as bad. Zuko would have in the end still been scarred and banished, and Iroh would have likely been locked up or killed and not banished. Iroh's crime for that would have been much more severe than Zuko's.

But Iroh did not interfere with the agni kai with Zuko and Zhao. That agni kai had ended; Zuko had every right to send a final blow to Zhao, but he passed. Iroh interfered because Zhao was a sore loser; a completely different story than what you sarcastically suggested.

Iroh broke the defense of the outer wall and the general guarding there to surrendered to him, giving him his own knife as a show of respect to General Iroh. He managed that without the technological/structural support that Azula had, the plans of which were provided by the Mechanist. I find it interesting you keep harping on Azula being able to bring down Ba Sing Se and Iroh failing; when you keep over-emphasizing "show strength" as the goal. Azula showed no strength there, but rather was able to sneak in under the guise of the Kyoshi Warriors and then let Ba Sing Se bring itself down thanks to the Dai Li. A little different there.

I would dare say that I, nor anybody else here, has any desire to respond to anything you say Shi Len. Don't be surprised if you don't receive a reply from somebody, and not for the reasons of "you win." Why then? Because you're downright rude and overbearing, crass, and inflammatory with your behavior. You even cussed in this last part and self-proclaimed yourself. You throw all your thoughts into one large block of text and it's filled with nothing but obstinate behavior (not without some good points of your own, mind you). Please try to learn some form of etiquette with your responses. That tactic is not debate - that is bullying.