Talk:Comet-Enhanced Agni Kai

Should we rename the article to "Last Agni Kai"? That's the name of the track heard during this Agni Kai. It would also serve as trivia for the page. Omnibender - Talk 21:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * That's where I got the title. But I think that 'Last Agni Kai' might also be a good title, maybe we should have a vote?

70.68.47.190 21:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I like the trivia idea, but I've noticed on other battle pages that they are discussed like a school textbook. Things are addressed such that it says "Fire Lord Zuko" rather than just "Zuko", "Princess Azula" instead of "Azula", and "Master Katara" over "Katara". So if the title could be called "Duel for the Throne" or "Agni Kai for the Throne", it would have more of a zero point of view sound to it. Energybender - Talk 21:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Distinction between an Agni Kai and a Fight
I think we need to align the definition of an Agni Kai with that of a real world duel for the purposes of the Last Agni Kai. In our world, a duel is an engagement in combat between two individuals, with matched weapons in accordance with their combat doctrines. Therefore, I think we need to say An Agni Kai is strictly a structured duel between two individuals of the same bending element, strictly Firebending. Saying that the Agni Kai continued between Katara and Azula isn't correct for several reasons:

1. First off, the moment Azula sent lightning at Katara, the fight  ceased to be a duel, therefore ceased to be an Agni Kai, as Azula violated the rules of a duel being between two individuals alone.

2. Second, Katara is a Waterbender. The word Agni is a Sanskrit word meaning 'fire'. Kai is the Japanese word for meeting. 'Fire Meeting. Therefore, an Agni Kai is a duel between Firebenders alone. This coincides with our definition of a duel as being done with matched weapons.

3. Azula was crazy. She only planned to have the Agni Kai because she firmly believed she could defeat Zuko without Katara interferring. When Zuko was disabled, the only thing on Azula's mind was killing Katara.

Bottom lines: --Henhouse 01:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Katara did not participate in the Agni Kai, because an Agni Kai does not allow for multiple or non-Firebender participants. I'm mentioning this to prevent people from saying in the article that this Agni Kai was special because it was the first time a Waterbender participated in it. It's an oxymoron to say a Waterbender participated in an Agni Kai. That's like saying a swordsman participated in a gunfight.
 * The Agni Kai had no victorious party because Azula violated the rules of the duel... "Just you and me, brother!" Therefore, the later half of the fight between Katara and Azula cannot be called an Agni Kai, instead it deteriorated into a simple fight. This also means the Last Agni Kai had no winner, but the fight that resulted did.

Henhouse. I understand that you have made many edits to the battle pages, and it is appreciated. However, you must understand two things. Firstly, a battle page must be focused and will not include tiny details that can go in episode pages. They should be written very formally like a textbook, as I did for Coup of Ba Sing Se. Secondly, you must understand that an introduction is not a summary of the topic. It must establish the full notability of the topic, and must also at least mention the destruction caused. Other than that, I liked your edits. About the Agni Kai: Everything in this world has rules, but those rules are made to be broken. There must be some duels that are unconventional. Also, even if you are right, what should we rename the article as? It is impossible to rename this article without making the new name sound stupid or horrendously long. If you want to split the article, you would go against our policy of not making pages for every single duel. Therefore, this page's name and is focus will stay as is and will not change. The 888th Avatar - Talk 04:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't want a change to the article's title at all. I'm recommending the removal of the part of the article that says the Agni Kai was unique because it was the first time a Waterbender participated in it. It's an oxymoron to say that a Waterbender participated in an Agni Kai, read the list of reasons I provided to understand. So, that'll be the only part of the article I think needs removing. --Henhouse 01:02, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. But if you want it changed, you're going to have to get someone else to approve, because I won't. The 888th Avatar - Talk 04:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it stopped being a fair Agni Kai when Azula attacked Katara. I'm pretty sure that's against the rules, and Azula cheated. (I don't know if anyone pointed that out before, but I'm sort of agreeing with Henhouse). Puragus  Talk 05:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It stopped being a fair Agni Kai. Rules were broken. Azula cheated. But that doesn't not make it an Agni Kai. If someone breaks the rules in football, it's still called football. The 888th Avatar - Talk 05:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Precisely! If you want to get very technical, it was really two different duels in one. That's what "Katara Intervenes" means. And just because Azula broke the rules does not make it not an Agni Kai. --SuperFlash101 18:49, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

sad
this was the sadest part in the seriesLuvingazula - Talk 17:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Please refrain from putting these things here. Put it on Forum:Avatar-related Discussion. --~Excelsior, The Flash - (Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!) 18:19, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Image
Flash, I'm looking at you. Why did you feel it was necessary to change the image? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I changed it back. The new one only had small puffs of flame in a big city. No awesomeness. No real main picture feel. Why oh why? The 888th Avatar (Talk) 20:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I did that because the image, along with the one's for the concurrent battles, was overused on the internet. Nothing new. But I've never seen that online. ~Excelsior, The Flash - (Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!) 15:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Title
"Final Agni Kai is also the title of the instrumental music track which plays during this battle." This is not accurate. The music is called Last Agni Kai. So, we can either remove this piece of trivia, or rename the article to be consistent with it. I'm for renaming. ―  T hailog  17:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Same for renaming. It actually is "Last Agni Kai," I've been meaning to mention it. — The Flash  Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me bay-bay!  18:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the name of this page is accurate. It sounds dramatic, but what is it a reference to? Is it because it's the last Agni Kai in the series? Where in any canon source on the show is this fight called the "Final Agni Kai"? I propose we change the name to something like "Agni Kai between Zuko and Azula." Every other "battle" page has a title that clearly describes it and reflects its nature, so I think we should do the same for this page. Puragus  Talk 19:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. This is certainly not accurate. I say we change the name to Agni Kai (or Duel) for the Throne. Vaznock - Talk 20:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Agni Kai for the Throne or for the Crown would both be accurate. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should change the name to "... for the Throne". I think Last Agni Kai is better due to the music track. Dcasawang1 -  Talk  21:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but consider this:


 * The title "Last Agni Kai" is untrue. It doesn't even sound epic or metaphorical like "Final Agni Kai". It sounds blunt and like it was meant to be taken literally.


 * We'd be moving a page just to make a piece of trivia true, and we'd be moving it to a name that's not true or "epic".


 * Agni Kai for the Throne is the truth, not that long, and to the point. Its not too "cool" sounding, but it makes sense and it is not purely named to excite people.

Vaznock - Talk 22:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I actually don't like the name "Agni Kai for the Throne," on the grounds of writing. It's more specific than "Final Agni Kai," but when you write something like "for the Throne," it raises the question: "What throne?" Obviously, in the context of the series, we're referring to the position of Fire Lord, but outside that context, it may as well be an Agni Kai for a toilet. To some casual fans/users, it may as well be that. I hate to be so blunt, but we need to be more specific than "Agni Kai for the Throne." Puragus  Talk 02:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't like "Agni Kai for the Throne" - the title becomes longer, and nothing is achieved by doing so - it's still quite ambiguous. As for "Agni Kai between Zuko and Azula", that would be the technically correct title, and it is okay (I suppose), but I don't like its ambiguity as well - it's not as if this is the first/only time Zuko and Azula have fought. At this stage, I'm all for renaming it the "Last Agni Kai". It refers to the final "Agni Kai" in the series, so it doesn't leave any doors open for ambiguity. Wjxhuang,  the 888th Avatar  {Talk} 03:49, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I hate to keep hitting the same point, but "Last Agni Kai" is just as ambiguous as "Final Agni Kai." When I read that title, I can't help but think "ever? Are there never going to be Agni Kais after this?" I get that the title is a reference to it being the last Agni Kai on the show, but isn't it OOU that way? While Zuko and Azula had a couple of fights before this, this was their first official Agni Kai, so to name it "Zuko and Azula's Agni Kai" is accurate. The others were just informal duels. Puragus  Talk 04:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why "for the Throne" isn't specific, people who understand the series know that the Fire Nation is ruled by the Fire Lord, the only way it could become more specific would be making the title bigger, which in turn would make the article's name unnatractive. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * How about just "Comet Enhanced Agni Kai"? ―  T hailog  18:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Ooooohhhh, I like that one. Vaznock - Talk 18:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Any two firebenders fighting during the eclipse could be called that, such as Jeong Jeong and Iroh against Fire Nation troops, or even Ozai versus Aang, who technically is a firebender. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:19, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But those aren't Agni Kais by definition. ―  T hailog  20:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Still, it lacks a certain... something, it doesn't feel... notable enough, considering the event. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Last Agni Kai is very ambiguous, especially as it's likely not true - there is likely to be an Agni Kai a week after, this, etc. Anyways, I think "Comet Enhanced Agni Kai" sounds more like it would be a page for a type of Agni Kai. The "Thrown" one fits - after all, we have several other pages that can bring you to this, especially in our locations and such (Fire Nation School? Oh, I see, there's only one in the Fi-oh, wait, there's more - stuff like that are just too ambiguous for their own good) and this one is the less of all. Another name suggestion I want to throw in is "Agni Kai in the Fire Nation Capital" or "Fire Nation Capital Agni Kai."  The Flash  {talk} 20:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Or, maybe more specific, Coronation Temple or Plaza. Dcasawang1  -  Talk  21:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Good.  The Flash  {talk} 21:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Now, what are we gonna name this?  The Flash  {talk} 15:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There are too many suggestions and too little consensus. I think this calls for a vote. ―  T hailog  15:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there are too many options to vote on, maybe we should narrow them down first. But hey, that's just me. Wjxhuang,  the 888th Avatar  {Talk} 15:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

For the Crown or For the Throne seem to be the best options in my opinion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've started the voting process.  The Flash  {talk} 20:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Voting ends today, people! ―  T hailog  19:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Voting
Keep the current name (Final Agni Kai)

Agni Kai for the Thrown
 * 1) Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Kai  -  Talk  21:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Agni Kai for the Crown
 * 1) Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Agni Kai in the Fire Nation Capital
 * 1)  The Flash  {talk} 20:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Comet Enhanced Agni Kai
 * 1) ―  T  hailog  12:27, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Last Agni Kai
 * 1) -  Dcasawang1  -  Talk  21:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)