Talk:Airbending/@comment-76.24.189.176-20120121100340/@comment-76.24.189.176-20120213234208

I think I see where the problem is. I don't care about past misunderstandings or contradictions or anything because I'm going to try and clear everything up right here. I'm ignoring smoke for now because that's a different and complex subject. But when it really comes down to it, my argument for poison firebending hinges on 3 things. If those three things are possible then I'm right about it being possible. You think at least most of those things are impossible, and I think that when applied to firebending they can be done. I'll do my best to prove it below:

1. The first thing is finding a way to get carbon gas into a flame:

I think you can at least accept that a firebender can make carbon gas of some sort get to the same area the flame is burning. There is a certain ability under the firebending page that you may want to look at again called breath of fire. And I quote, "The breath of fire involves the user firebending out of his or her mouth, mixing air from the lungs with the flame creating a wider, hotter blast." If they mixed the CO2 from their lungs with the flame, that means carbon gas has combined or at least "mixed" with the flame. That proves that this first step is possible. If it wasn't, that ability and its description would not be phrased like that under the Avatar Wiki Firebending page. The last sentence in that same description says, "Tea can also serve as a catalyst for the breath of fire, as implied by Iroh." If tea can be used as a catalyst, it would mean that other things must be able to be used as catalysts for firebending as well, thus proving that firebenders CAN bend flames with other properties even if it takes special circumstances.

2. The second thing is a firebender's ability to control oxygen amounts on some level when it applies to the fire they are bending, even if it is indirectly:

To be absolutely clear, this in turn would mean that they could lower or raise the oxygen level to the appropriate ratio to match the carbon that the firebender has also conditionally put into the flame until they create carbon monoxide inside the area the flame is burning.

Now I respect your knowledge and experience with fire. But if a firebender can mix the air from their lungs in with a flame, then they can control how much oxygen enters the flame with there breath on some level in at least 1 technique. That firebending page proved it as air from the lungs would contain oxygen as well as carbon. But let's talk about the rest of the firebending that isn't directly breathed through anyone's mouth, as that argument also pertains to this.

Fire needs three things or it would go out. It needs heat, fuel, and oxygen. Without any one of those things, fire can't exist. But oxygen is used in fire not as a fuel so much, but more because it is a necessary component for the chemical reaction. Often oxygen comes out of the air, so most of the time it is a given. As a result, most fires can not exist within a vacuum. The heat component can be made by firebenders and that has been proven. This is why they can also control heat separate from fire. The fuel is also likely taken care of by firebenders, as fire can't just burn off of nothing as it might appear to in the show. This is because benders have their limits and aren't gods. Therefore, I theorized it likely that firebenders burn their fire off of their spiritual energy for fuel. This would explain why the fire goes out when they stop bending it, as they also stop supplying it with spiritual energy needed to control it and it then runs out with the fire. So firebenders likely provide the first two things by themselves, but sadly you are still doubtful on the oxygen.

However, even if the fire naturally draws oxygen from the surrounding air by itself, it still proves my point. A firebender could INDIRECTLY effect how much oxygen the fire draws (from the surrounding air by itself) simply by effecting the intensity of the flames. A more intense flame would naturally draw more oxygen from the surrounding air, and a less intense flame would draw less respectively. This isn't bending the oxygen, it is simply manipulating the fire to consume the appropriate levels of oxygen needed to chemically react with the carbon that the firebender would also have added to the area of the flame in this scenario. It would take great precision and control, as well as the proper knowledge and technique. But it is quite possible that a firebender could figure out how to do this.

However, you also said that firebenders bend flames without oxygen because they don't follow the same rules and they provide the needed energy themselves. But fires without oxygen can't exist. As a result, fire really can't exist in a vacuum. Sometimes an oxidizer such as fluorine can be added to the fire, instead of it burning oxygen from the surrounding air. This way it appears like the fire is oxygen free, but it's actually not. So if the fires the firebenders made were not relevant to the atmosphere at all (which I highly doubt but even if they were) they would need another source of oxygen. If that were the case, their spiritual energy would not only act as a fuel, but as an oxidizer as well. Thus they'd be able to add oxygen through their spiritual energy, but only when adding it to a flame. Even if their fires somehow magically don't need oxygen because of their spiritual energy, they could still burn oxygen in the air as a substitute or nothing would be able to catch fire from bended flame. And they can bend fire that is burning oxygen and the Firebending page proves that one, too. See the "fire augmentation" skill.

3. The third thing is a firebender being able to control flames without it losing it's properties.

Again, fire augmentation proves a firebender can in fact bend fire that isn't their own. Then looking at the last sentence in the description of the breath of fire technique, it explains how tea can be used as a catalyst for firebending. This proves that firebenders can use other sources of fuel to burn their fire off of. Therefore, we can also assume this ability to bend fire using alternative fuel sources would not be limited to just tea as that wouldn't make any sense. If firebenders can do that, it also stands to reason that they can create fire with that combines with existing matter and then bend it using their spiritual energy. Let me elaborate:

While solid matter like rocks would not move with the flame, the chemicals of the rock the fire was burning would stay in the flame for at least a little while as the gases created would be a part of the chemical reaction. As a result, those gases would get swept along by the current of the flame until it slowly seeped out. Believe me, fire does have currents, or at the very least creates them within itself do to the chemical reaction. If fire had no force to move objects, it would not be able to be harnessed to power solid metal rockets to the moon. Furthermore, firebenders would only have to bend the fire that the gas is trapped in due to currents in the flame, not the gases themselves. While this force would not generally be strong enough to even move solid objects, it would be plenty strong enough to sweep gases that are in the flame along for the ride for awhile, even if at the same time they slowly seep out. However, that would also be the point. If carbon monoxide or any other poisonous gas is slowly seeping out of a flame that is being bended, that would be poison firebending.