Talk:Azula/Archive 3

Grammer fixations
I fixed some minor grammer errors. "Azula, calm and deadly," I replaced the comma with a ; and switched one fleeting moment into "a fleeting" moment.

Also, so everyone knows: In presentation we have to type out name of the numbers from one to ten. 11+ can be represented by numerical values. It is proper format for press releases, which these pages represent. :)

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 08:17, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Next time i have to write an essay could i send it to you to proof-read? :P Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 16:01, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you:)16:38, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, sure. I have to admit though, media grammer and english grammer are two separate things. I learned these things while studying journalism. The best way to describe it as media-based writing is not the same as writing an essay, etc. But I must admit I am very flattered -- I originally wanted to be an English major, but my parents convinced me where the money is in communications. Lol! And since this Wiki is kept very professional and clean, I wouldn't mind teaching the main editors a thing or two! :) As Ozai once said to Azulon... "Use me." LOL!

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 18:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Minor changes
I did some editing today:

I changed "Hunting Zuko" into "Pursuing Zuko" to eliminate the repetitiveness.

I changed "Descent into Madness" into "A Fragile State of Mind" -- We have to accept that Azula may not be insane, she is struggling with the current climax of her predetermined expectations of her life. The statement "A Fragile State of Mind" promotes that, where as "Decent into Madness" may not exactly make sense as she was able to perform and generate lightning during her Agni Kai. This requires peace of mind, which she lost at the end of the battle, not before or during it. We have to remember that Azula is human, and because she exercised question and guilt does not necessarily make her insane. It was merely out of character for her.

In this light, I changed the tag under the picture with her and Ursa to "With a weakened mentality due to the course of events, Azula hallucinates a confrontation with her mother." This seems more accurate. Azula isn't crazed at this point, this scene was to show watchers the internal conflict within her. Thus, it is a reflection of her conscious and contributes to her weakened mentality but not necessarily the cause of it.

I also changed the tag of the image of her crying to, "Azula, as her state of mind crumbles upon defeat, cries in despair." This is a more accurate depiction of that moment. It is unfair to claim she is insane, as the producers said she was in an institution but never claimed she was actually insane. She needed mentoring, and there is a difference. To go from being elitist to defeated, and given her background, this presents a more cleaner image of Azula to people who may have not watched the series. Her being insane is a subjective matter, and is up to the watcher decide, not have the page claim it. Hence, the "Fragile State of Mind" is definitely a better way to title that section of the page.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 23:11, September 6, 2010 (UTC) I also changed the caption under the image of Azula losing her temper as: "Azula's flawless demeanor is shattered by the unanticipated betrayal of Mai." In my opinion, that is a concise summary of the fact this is the first time we witness Azula's imperfections. Please let me know if you are not alright with this, but I have to admit the statement I provided is very fitting given Azula's character and the situation. Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 00:28, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hair color
For the record, Azula's hair color is used by the animators as: "330000" which is the digital capture animation formate coding. This hexi code is actually depicted as "Dark Brown." With the advancement in animation the animators now don't have to swap color codes for shadows, its done automatically. Thus, there is a transition like this done when Azula moves:

663300 -- 330000 -- 000000

000000 is the equivalent of black, but they're using it as a "shadow-base." The middle number in transitions is called "base color" and the first one is called "sun-based" ( reflecting light ). This makes Azula's hair-color to actually be dark brown. On a animators point of view, they probably made Azula's hair not be the signature black to reflect the fact she shouldn't assume the throne. And sadly, they used "000000" as the base of her hair during the finale. If you look at my user page image of her, it is clear that Azula's hair is dark brown. I am currently undecided if I should change this on her page or not.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 00:15, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Also, it seems when she was in the Kyoshi Warrior outfit her hair transitions were using a base of "000000" as well. I can't explain this, but for the record Azula's hair color is forever changing in the series. This may be a reflection of who produced what episodes and is a prime example of creation teams working from different locales. As of now, I will leave it as black, but it should be dually-noted by her fans that her original base color is indeed 330000, making her hair dark brown. What's funny, is that Azula and I have the same hair color, and depending on the lighting of the room I either have dark brown or black hair.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 00:19, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

They also swapped back to the 33000 palette during Into The Inferno and Avatar Aang. See what I am talking about? *facepalm* Lol, I have to admit I am humored.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 00:32, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Making her hair not-black to show she shouldn't assume throne makes no sense at all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:53, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

^^I don't think that is what he meant. Prince Azula, good work. Avatar Courage 00:55, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Avatar Courage. And yes, I didn't mean it literally. Every Fire Lord has been depicted to have jet black hair. The fact that she appears to have dark brown makes it so she doesn't follow the trend of the predecessors ( a huge one of this is the fact she is female as well ). Another good example of this is when she sits at the Throne of the Fire Lord, she is surrounded by blue embers rather than orange ones, thus making her out of place. Its just someone who analyzes the series as much as I do ponder about the creation of her character.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 01:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well TBH there is such a thing as over-analyzing, Atl east that's what my parents tell me. I don't know if you're liek this but i liek to know how things work so i definately find this interesting. Although i don't think its anything imperative to add to her page, but like Courage said i don't think you want to add this to the page (this is just discussion after all :D) Something interesting is that i always thought her hair was black but in one of the early episodes of Book 3 after Zuko finds out Azula said he killed the avatar and goes to confront her when shes sleeping, i noticed that her hair appeard to be Dark Brown. I just assumed that it was a trick of the light or my TV messed up but i guess it was always that way? Me an my dad have Really dark brown hair and at first glane it looks black to most people but it actually is dark brown so i suppose it's the same thing? It's always nice to see similarities between yourself and fiction :D If only i could shoot fire... Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 20:34, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, haha. I agree that I tend to over-analyze. But, I have experienced an animators development and the process of creating a character is a very in-depth experience because you are basically taking a drawing and giving it life. I guess I was just trying to figure out what the heck her hair color is. As far as a reference I took scenes from different parts of the series and used iMovie to get the color coding index which told me on some episodes her hair is black, and some it is dark brown. Since Ozai and Sozin are shown to have jet-black hair, and she seems to inherit their traits more than Zuko ( who seems to have inherited more of his mother's side ), its funny how Zuko has lighter colored hair that Roku had as a younger man. Its details like that, that truly make a great character and that creators and animators can gloat about over coffee. And as far as the same hair color, I am with you on that Admiral. :) I have the same hair too! Haha. ^.^

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 22:07, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Age (again)
I noticed above people were saying that she should be 15 because she had a birthday, to which someone replied that she didn`t have a birthday during the show.

I just want to set things straight by saying that Azula`s Chinese zodiac sign is the serpent (says on her page) and according to Wikipedia she would`ve been born between may 5th - may 20th OR May 21st - June 5th (depending on the solar term.) We know that Sozen`s Comet arrived near the end of summer (i beleive it was stated in the show? Correct me if i'm wrong) then we can say that Azula did in fact have a birthday during the show.

The only thing we need to figure out now is if 14 is her age when she first appears in the show? or if 14 is her age at the end of the show? Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 20:42, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

No idea who added that her Chinese zodiac is a serpent, there is no source, so that should be removed, other character articles should also be checked for that. Azula was 14 when she was introduced, I even uploaded a screencap showing her age in Nick's Avatar site once. It's been deleted, but if necessary I think I can find it again. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:01, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

ah okay, people should really cite sources after they post something like that. I think they might've looked at the zodiac chart and saw that both Horse and Snake were Fire elements and they chose Snake becuase it matched her personality. That's just speculation though (but to be honest Snake does fit her personality :D) Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:06, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * The chinese zodiac aren't that elementally affiliated. Year 2013 will be the year of the water snake for example, and 2001 was the year of the metal snake. And since they are based on years, anyone born in the same year as her would also be a snake. If she were a snake that is. Cresh Osk (talk &bull; contribs) 02:15, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

There was a blog on the official Nickelodeon website that a user posted comparing Zodiac symbols and their respected elements. I am sure that it stemmed from that, but overall there is no proof of a birthday or her sign. Problems in fact like these arise when comparing the Avatar universe to our own universe ( which thus, makes the claim arbitrary ). Though there is no concrete evidence to prove that any character has gone up in age during the series, it would be hard to actually pinpoint when something happens, and if there are even seasons at all. Remember, in the Water Tribes it is constantly snowing and the Fire Nation is always tropical weather, on top of the Solstices which seem way out of place in their occurrence. We just have to accept that the world the Avatar was created in may be running in a different time line and a "year" may not be 4 seasons, 365 days as seasons seem to be compared to a nation rather than a timeframe. Thus, I removed the Serpent symbol comment and suggest that Azula is 14. Her character bio says so on Nickelodeon: http://www.nick.com/shows/avatar/characters/azula.html

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 21:54, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

We know she's 14, even the old site said she was. I even found out the delete image log of the Azula is 14. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:42, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Right. But there is no proof that she ever became 15 or even had a birthday, sadly...

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 23:26, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Firebending stance I noticed on Azula
Okay, I know this should also be part of the Firebending page, but I am not too sure which really as it pertains to Azula's Firebending style. So, first off my reference is referring back to Sozin's redirection of heat stance, which is shared by lightning redirection as well. If you freeze on the second mirrored video on digavatar.com at 24:13 on The Boiling Rock Part 2 you can see Azula holds her right arm hand in a north-east diagonal while her fingers point to the sky, and then she lunges forward but is abruptly stopped by Ty Lee. At first, I was like, "Oh she is going to strike her down with lightning," but then I realized that Azula can only project lightning through the circular motions of both her arms which she clearly does not do, so it must retain to her Firebending. Do you think this has any significance to her Firebending style? I examined Azula a bit more, and she does not consistently make a stance like that. However, redirection of energy may not always pertain to her holding one hand to the sky. But, as it seems apparent that Firebenders who are not an Avatar can draw heat from a source and cool it, as this is something that can naturally be done, and they use these concepts throughout all forms of bending ( Waterbending comes to mind ). Since Azula is unique to blue flames, which I feel is a reflection of dry ice ( extremely hot, but very cold. Sounds like Azula... ), which also produces a steam, and usually when Azula bends ( though I noticed this from her battle in Ba Sing Se ) she has steam coming from her fingertips for a split second. I wonder if Azula takes heat from the air to improve her Firebending. I feel this is appropriate discussion because sometimes it is up to the hardcore fans to make connections that aren't blatantly obvious, and can form proper conclusions from supported evidece -- which I have provided. Tell me what you think guys, because it isn't so far-fetched of a conclusion, eh?

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 08:32, September 10, 2010 (UTC) Well i do agree, she is extremely hot. lol XD so you're saying that she takes heat from the air to augment her firebending? I suppose that might be possible. It's hard to tell since all of us can only speculate as to how everything works in TLA. Because of that the end result is really only speculation so you can't really put it up on her page or anything. Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 19:34, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

True, true. I have to admit though, TLA does use science in its mechanisms of bending -- this actually is a huge element of its success. Remember, Firebenders use their skills to keep airships afloat, and have used their Firebending to create coal. It doesn't sound so far fetch in my opinion. Is deductive reasoning not allowed? I can prove it with the deductive reasoning theory, but I don't want to challenge the wiki's ethic. This is something that I merely stumbled upon. But, this technique may not be something every bender is capable of doing, otherwise many other benders would have accomplished this. I wonder though, I never found once that TLA mentioning Azula's bending is hotter than the rest, but yet it appears on the page. I really was using that example to grow off this one. Oh, well. It still sounds pretty awesome! You should freeze that moment Admiral I mentioned. That image of Azula deserves to be on her page. It's awesome! :)

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 23:14, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think the pic of Azula that you have on your page is the best. The reason i said it shouldn't be put on the page is because it's one thing to see benders use their gifts in place of our regular machinery, but to assume she's doing that is still impossible i think. Because TLA is fantasy and is way different then our world we can't deduct anything really. For all you know she might've been doing nothing, or maybe it was just a battle stance. Do you understand what i'm saying? (it's a hard point to say...) Admiral-165 (talk &bull; contribs) 23:34, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Yes that makes perfect sense. I actually found she did that stance repeatably during the fight with Aang and Zuko in "The Chase" as well. However, she rotates her arms in that particular battle like a wheel.

Also, in Boiling Rock Part 2, before she goes to strike Mai she touches her fingers where her stomach is ( The source of Firebending which is mentioned by Guru Pathik in "The Guru" ) and then extends her right arm to the sky and the left one at Mai. It may be how she channels the bending, which flushes my whole theory down the toilet. :/ Oh well, in the end it just proves what we know: Azula is a master Firebender.

I'm not going to lie though, I wish they would of elaborated on the many colors of flames that can be produced. Another interesting fact is that Azula's lightning is coded with "FFFFFF" transitioning to "CCFFFF" ( this is also the transitions used on her flames ) which produces a light blue effect. However, Ozai's lightning transitions from "FFFFFF" to "99FFCC" which is... actually a light light green. All we ever got to confirm this was Zuko saying "I understand now," in the "Firebending Masters"... >:/ *Sigh* This had much potential to explain Azula's personality more indepth. Too bad. :/

I still vote we place the screen shot of Azula that I mentioned somewhere on her page. It definitely expresses that even though Azula lost her composure in Boiling Rock Part 2 she was able to regain it just as quickly which signifies her calm and collective attitude. Its ironic, considering these events caused the weakening of her mentality. Did you see the image I speak of Admiral. Its fiiierrcceee.

Prince Azula http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab307/yeahthatboy/azula-dobs-c1.gif 01:29, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Funny. Piandao does the same stance that I am talking about. Literally, to a tee.

Loyalty
I think that the first sentences of Azula's personality should be kept because she really doesn't have a real loyalty besides to herself. Sh wasn't doing anything to help anyone but herself, she helped the fire nation because, if they won, she would be basically queen of the world. Notice how angry she gets when her father declares himself as world leader and azula nothing more han a governor, it sends her further down the path to insanity and she starts banishing everyone, so it wasn't for the fire nation or her father, it was for herself to prove she was perfect and to rule the old. Courage the Cowardly User  Talk   Contributions  20:09, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Keep
Courage the Cowardly User  Talk   Contributions  20:09, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Delete
- She seemed happy at the idea of becoming Fire Lord. She was happy to do what her father wanted. I think the was fairly loyal to Ozai. -- I'm The Bos - Talk -  Guardian 20:15, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Vulmen (talk &bull; contribs) 20:22, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Comments
- When she was banishing people, it wasn't so much that she was trying to prove she was perfect, but moreso that she found herself unable to trust anyone due to having nobody left by her side, at all. Betrayal from her friends had pushed her mental state, and being left to complete solitude after Ozai, her authority figure, left. I just don't see where "disloyalty" for Azula comes into play, ever, besides speculation. She never shown the slightest hint against her father, nor even showing she felt she considered Fire Lord inferior to "Phoenix King". She indeed seemed honored for the title. Vulmen (talk &bull; contribs) 20:22, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Higher Quality
I personally think that the current picture of Azula in the infobox on her page is low quality. I am not going to suggest changing the picture, but instead maybe making it a little smaller? It might make the quality look a little better. I don't know, share with me what you think.


 * -- Anr 03  28  21:36, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for your opinions! --Anr0328

Change

 * 1)  I think we should make the picture smaller. -- Anr  03  28  21:29, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Don't Change

 * 1) Making it smaller wouldn't increase quality. It makes zero sense. -- I'm The Bos  - Talk -  Guardian 23:42, December 13, 2010
 * 2) As per above. Either find a better photo and start a vote, or leave it be, Personally, it looks fine.  Water Spout   tаlk • blog  23:47, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) The only reason I can see to suggest bad quality is the "fuzzy" background/people behind her. This is fine, Azula is the main focus. Vulmen (talk &bull; contribs) 00:21, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Change of Infobox Picture
I want to change the picture of the infobox of Azula. I'll just write the links: (thanks, Renatabls for your help)


 * 1
 * 2
 * 3
 * 4
 * 5
 * 6

Vote. Dcasawang1 -  Talk  01:51, January 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Stop, stop. There is nothing wrong with the current profile image. Sure, we should encourage updating images, and replacing images that are of a bad quality. However, as the current Azula profile image is from Season 3 (the Southern Raiders episode) and shows her face and her characteristic expression, I'm hard pressed to find a reason why we need a new one. I'm sorry for this outburst, but we shouldn't change images just because we can. The 888th Avatar   (talk)  02:29, January 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I want to change it because of the guards behind Azula. Isn't it important? Dcasawang1  -  Talk  13:58, January 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the guards are pretty out of the focus, in the background, and don't really detract from the quality of the image. Azula is often surrounded by guards anyway. The 888th Avatar   (talk)  02:09, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Voting

 * 1) Second one.  Renata  bls  02:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2)  If it were to be changed. 6  Toph   Lover . 02:03, January 6, 2011 (UTC)Toph Lover
 * 3)  As per 888.  Water Spout   tаlk • blog  02:09, January 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * 4)  It's called Depth of Field. You don't can't actually see the guards that well. -  <font color="darkblue" title="Profile">Anr  <font color="blue" title="Talk Page">03  <font color="steelblue" title="Blog">28  06:54, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * 5)  A  va  Fan  (<font color="DarkSlateGray">msg ) 06:59, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * 6)  (as per 888) - hm, this should be oppose & down here, huh. *moves it* Vulmen (talk &bull; contribs) 02:40, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * 7)  Nothing's wrong with the current. -- I'm The Bos  - Talk -  Guardian 19:02, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * 8)  They are all pretty shoddy. And this one looks fine.
 * 9)  per 888. Nothing wrong.  VJavatar   The Last Wikibender  (AR) VJ seal.jpg 20:51, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10)  What 888 said.Chapreyes (talk &bull; contribs) 00:35, January 9, 2011 (UTC)Chapreyes
 * 11)  Millennia2  ( Talk  &bull;  Start Running ) 23:53, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * 12)  No. We are begging to go crazy with image changing. If we want to be successful when Korra comes out, we need to look stable.. and this constant image changing doesn't make us look stable. We are editing so much on articles that shouldn't need any more editing. The series has been over for some time now, and these articles should already be done, up to par, and A class articles. Korra is coming, that's what we need to focus on. There is no issue with the current image for Azula. Just stop with the image changing, it's gotten out of hand. Momo Sprite.gif *  Ian Bernard  * Momo Sprite.gif 18:14, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * 13)  Per everyone who opposed. ―  T  hailog  18:31, January 11, 2011 (UTC)