Talk:Four nations/@comment-1216259-20120811204633

Alright, this argument is just embarrassing, so let me just explain, definitively, why the United Republic of Nations (URN) is its own nation, & there is no reasonable argument to the contrary:

First of all, the URN is NOT the same as the United Nations (UN). It is similar to the UN, but just because it is similar, that does not make it the same. The URN has several differences from the UN, which explain why one is a country & the other is not. Since someone else was so kind as to post the definition of a nation, let's look at exactly why the URN fits, while the UN does not:

Body of people: The UN & the URN both fit this, but there is more to it than that.

Associated with a particular territory: The URN still fits, but the UN does not. The headquarters of the UN does not correspond to its own territory, it is in New York City. It also has other offices in other parts of the world. It does not have so much as a city to call its own. Because it's not a country, it's an organization OF countries. The URN, however, is a country that ALSO mediates between the other countries. Again, it is similar, but not the same.

Has or seeks to possess its own government: The UN does not fit this either. The nations of the UN simply come to agreements on whether to give aid, place sanctions, etc. The UN doesn't govern any of the nations it is composed of, or indeed, anyone at all. But the URN clearly has a fully functioning government. It composes, enforces, & judges legal matters within its own territory, & the citizens are held accountable to those laws.

Though the URN is not the same as the UN, there is a a real-world precedent for it. The Vatican. The Vatican is the headquarters of an international organization of people (Catholicism), but it is also its own country.

To say it isn't confirmed is a blatant logical fallacy for 2 reasons. First of all, many things aren't "confirmed," in this series, in the sense that they are not outright stated. The Rough Rhinos aren't "confirmed" to have a Firebender. Azula is not "confirmed" to be a human being. Badgermoles aren't "confirmed" to be animals. But we don't have to be told these things, because they clearly have things that meet the defining features.

Similarly, the URN has all of the features of a nation. In addition to everything I just said, it has a military, a police force, a legal system, houses, cities, including a capitol city, civilians...in some ways, it's more of a nation than the Air Nomads were at their height, let alone now that they're composed of probably less than a hundred people living on Tenzin's little island.

Secondly, it is confirmed. Tenzin outright calls it a society. You don't use that term if you're talking about an organization, such as the UN. Now, it can also refer to cities, but Tenzin isn't talking about Republic City, he's talking about the larger society that Republic City belongs to...in other words, the country it's the capitol of.

Now, finally, the claim that this page is "the four nations as a concept." This has to be the biggest cop out of all time. First of all, the page is not called "Four Nations (Concept)," nor does it spend a great deal of time talking about the nations as a philosophical framework. But let's just assume I believed this. There is no reason not to include the United Republic, explaining that it is "a nation that's not one of the four nations," much the same way I did.

So, I'm not going to edit to make this change, because people can change it back if they very well want to. But I'm not buying this argument that there's any legitimate reason for the decision to neglect it, & no one else should, either.