Talk:Iroh/@comment-3278061-20110928165231/@comment-1025281-20111108080129

I neither have the time or the inclination to write another properly constructed essay on this, so:
 * 1) As a main character, Iroh needed more screen time with dialogue, and he certainly did get this during the finale. By contrast, the other masters involved have far less dialogue, and need that screen time during the battle to avoid the series being accused of ignoring the minor characters. You'll notice that the other masters only had one scene of action in Ba Sing Se each. Giving more action time to Iroh would involve totally removing the opportunity to showcase the others in action.
 * 2) You missed the point. We all know that the storyline of Harry Potter allowed Dumbledore a chance to duel; the storyline of Avatar unfortunately did not afford Iroh this opportunity. The point was that both character's greatest power was hidden from the main plotline and put there as back story. By all accounts, Dumbledore (comparatively speaking) did not acquit himself well against Voldemort once you consider that the odds – wand and phoenix – were heavily stacked in his favour. But we still know what the old man is capable of, because we hear stories of his defeat of an Elder Wand-wielding Grindelwald with the odds stacked against him. Similarly, Iroh's power is assumed by the audience, based on how other characters treat him, which I've provided more than enough examples for.
 * 3) Jeong Jeong's wall involves a very different kind of Firebending to anything Iroh does. As with the example of Ozai burning down the forest, making flames jump high requires much less physical force than an attack intended to destroy something outright or throw someone off-balance. In addition, your citation of other characters as examples of "look, person 1 respects person 2, therefore person 2 must be great" is frankly lame. If you can't even respect the opinion of Zuko, who is good enough to become Fire Lord and will almost certainly be the most powerful Firebender later in life, talking about Chey's worship of Jeong Jeong is laughable. As for Iroh's opinion of Azula ("she's dangerous and she needs to go down"), this is more a comment on her character and ambition than her bending, given the context. There are examples where Iroh gives blunt assessments, but they do not indicate that he believes himself inferior to the challenge. Other than his famous refusal to duel his own brother, Iroh also tells Zhao that there are limitations to Fire Nation military might at the Northern Water Tribe, namely that the moon will make the Waterbenders unstoppable. It's not cowardice; it's merely a strategic comment that professionals make: do this an you can win faster without losing as many troops.
 * 4) Azulon never said he favoured Iroh because he was the first-born. Go back and watch the episode again. Make a clear distinction that he shows disdain towards everything Ozai says or shows him ("Prince Ozai, why are you wasting my time with this pomp?"), and shows much more compassion for Iroh ("I think Iroh has suffered enough") than Ozai. He even refers to Lu Ten as "beloved" while deciding to kill Zuko without even pausing for thought. This is not the behaviour of a man who favours the first-born because he is first-born; it's the behaviour of a man who genuinely has no respect for his younger son at all. It's all the more extraordinary when you consider that Azulon and Ozai are more alike than Azulon and Iroh in temperament and ambition. When you combine this behaviour with the consideration that Iroh has a decorated military career while Ozai sat at home doing nothing, Azulon's emotional (not legal) preference for Iroh becomes crystal clear. After all, anyone would find it ludicrous that Ozai did not even try to lead a military campaign to impress his father and further his ambition. Clearly, Azulon believed him to be a failure and did not allow him that opportunity.
 * 5) You also referred to the soundness of Azulon's judgement at this point. I should remind you at this point of the militarily parlous state of the Earth Kingdom when Ozai took over. Two strongholds left to them. Two. Most of the kingdom's inhabitable land taken over as colonies. Even Ba Sing Se humiliated once. Keeping in mind that the hardest fighting is done when both sides are still strong – there were a lot more casualties when Germany attacked Russia in World War II than when the Soviets cleaned their assailants up in the last year of the war – these are not the achievements of an incompetent.
 * 6) Rubbish. Then why does Iroh have a higher rank than Jeong Jeong? They're the same age, so could it be that Iroh is the more capable of the two? As for Fire Nation soldiers attacking Iroh – actually, in general Iroh attacked them, not the other way around. Iroh chose to attack Zhao's guard, Iroh attacked the Imperial Firebenders etc. When you're attacked, you do try fight back – however futile it is.
 * 7) Of the "points" you've made, these are the most nonsensical. Do have any concept of tactics and fighting environment whatsoever? When you have more power, it is instantly negated if the fighting environment is not in your favour. Why else do you think ambushes work? Narrow, confined environments like an airship totally negate any advantage to be had by having more raw power. It's a bit like in the real world, where you don't run around with a rocket-propelled grenade launcher in narrow corridors. Iroh had to fight in the open. Toph and company fought on an airship where the Firebenders were not even mentally prepared for onboard resistance. As for Zuko, just look at the timeline. Zuko duels Zhao in the third episode of the series. You can safely assume he gets better nearly twenty episodes later. The guy beats Katara just the episode before he takes out two Imperial Firebenders! But nothing you said was as illogical as claiming that "zuko [sic] becomes firelord [sic] because he was the only choice". Oh wait – Iroh, the rightful Fire Lord, actually gives it up to him in the finale... that is all.
 * 8) Because Ozai clearly intended to punish Zuko in this way. He wouldn't exactly say, "Nah, actually, just banish the both of them; screw the mark," if Iroh had intervened. It would make more sense for him to finish the job and then banish them both. As it happened, Iroh was not a Fire Nation criminal until the end of the first series, and you can imagine how much that helped Zuko, who ended up in the right place at the right time.
 * 9) Unlike court, a television series only gives you so many episodes of insights. It does not have the time to bog itself down by actually showing every little bit of the universe the plot line takes place in. The only court that would matter is a hypothetical in-universe court. If the Avatar universe did have a court to determine this debate, your argument here certainly wouldn't hold water. Then we'd have access to what exactly Iroh was doing while he was becoming one of the most decorated Fire Nation leaders of the entire war.
 * 10) Again, a television series only gives you so many episodes of insights. As Iroh is in the second tier of a crowded field of main characters, his character development is less important than Team Avatar and Zuko. Stop taking writing decisions and making them canon truths.

It is clear that nothing will be gained from further debate on this matter. Your determination to see Iroh as inferior to other Firebending masters has descended to the point of zealousness and an unwillingness to see any reason whatsoever. We are not here to prove that Iroh is a god, but your wholesale rejection of his commonly-held status as one of most potent benders in the series casts doubts on your objectivity. You would gain much if you began to pursue a more open-minded approach, and learn to appreciate the depth of a canon universe rather than make sweeping judgements from simply what you see on your screen.